Update 11 test

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Danielefc
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Update 11 test

Unread postby Danielefc » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:08 pm

Update 11 Test

We'll be updating this list as the beta updates are rolled out.

How to join

To make the switch just go to your Steam Library, right-click the game and select 'Properties'. Click on the 'BETAS' tab and from the drop-down menu select 'beta - Branch with untested beta features'.
(To switch back, just follow the same procedure and choose 'None - opt out of all beta programs').


New features
* New Axis standalone scenario: Nordwind
* New Axis standalone scenario: Kasserine
* Used persistent cards can now be recouped for 0 prestige
* In the campaign, each segment after the first can now be reset to the last conference (with a score penalty)
* New Axis standalone scenario: Nordwind
* Icons for HQs out of supply in Supply view
* Scenario editor stability and UI improvements
* Scenario editor tooltips

Fixes
* Billboard scale fix when the camera is zoomed out
* Fixed incorrect placement of info sheet items immediately after AI turn
Last edited by Danielefc on Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

juoc
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby juoc » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:00 am

Just played Nordwind on classic and the AI didn't perform that well. Abandoned Rheinau, didn't break out of an encirclement by weak units around Colmar after a failed intial attack by me. Also brought a HQ undefended to the frontline.

Edit: AI abandoned Rheinau on Hard too.

NightPhoenix
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby NightPhoenix » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:31 pm

The AI didn't perform that way for me. They always protected all their objectives. And as per usual were relentless in their counterattacks wherever they saw an opening. I've played the scenario a few times, and they always tried to smash their way out of any encirclement. If i weakened Colmar or Saarbrucken, by lowering the number of steps on those units, or if i switched them out with another one, the AI generally attacked and would be able to take those cities most of the time. I've seen them go for Rheinau as well if i captured it earlier in the scenario. Only having the Pz. Br. 106 on that hex would prevent the Allies from trying any shenanigans. Though i had one case where they used their strongest armored unit, crossed the river, assaulted the panzers, pushing them back and retaking the city also. Took me a few tries, but taking all the objectives is quite possible with the correct strategy. (Classic difficulty) Now for Wacht am Rhein, taking all the objectives there....

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Danielefc
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby Danielefc » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:42 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Will look into the AI behaviour again on monday :)

Adronio
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby Adronio » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:09 pm

Dun dunnunuuuu! Victory!

I've noticed the trend that armoured losses for the poor axis tends to be very high, which makes sense and seems quite historically accurate. Atleast I managed to completely wipe the darn armoured forces of theirs completely off the map, and with the state of the allied forces I can quite happily assume their casualties would have increased quite significantly atleast for a few days until they could plug the hole again, with 2 full and 1 mauled infantry division looking to get encircled this next turn atleast, so Im adding 20 steps to the allied casualties in my heart.

Other then that, Allied infantry can be quite ridiculously tough even in good attacking terrain. A normal US infantry division with 1 SpAT and 1 Arty is a whole 32 Defense + 3 anti-tank. This is damn nasty to try and attack into with German Infantry, especially the volksgrenadiers you gotta rely most on nowadays, with a maxed out german volksgrenadier division only managing 21 attack. If you rely on artillery, which you have to, you get a bit better of a chance, however the Allies tends to have a veterancy advantage at this stage of the war. You can still attack, but damnit if you dont got to contain your ambitions, The panzer forces have it a bit easier but even a single SpAT specialist can easily neuter any armoured shifts you wanted to get. A 6 step panzer division gets 54 attack and a 6 step panzer-grenadier 48. Without the armoured shifts even they struggle in good terrain to smack US infantry if they are strong.

On the offense US infantry also has the advantage even excluding artillery, easily getting 18 attack (12 for infantry and 6 for SpAT) which combined with the axis weaker defense of 21 for a full division gives them a better ratio then german infantry on the attack. This of course gets worse with artillery involved. US tanks are also kick-ass when well supported with SpArty and other specialists, easily the equivalent to German Tanks, usually having no problem taking them on if they can get artillery support from nearby infantry and even without it usually being able to trade blows effectivly. Doesnt help that most of the US combat power is in those specialist steps which are usually very well protected. Meanwhile apart from Stugs, JagdPanters and Artillery German Specialist steps drop like flies. Those poor Tigers and Pioneers dont last long since they dont get any normal steps as a buffer when on the attack. You can't really rely, expect or even hope that those suckers are gonna last past a single engagement.

Apart from extremely powerful and cheap SpAT this does seem quite realistic though. The Germans really had significant issues with all their attacks for a reason. However, when they did launch these major attacks they tended to get atleast quite equal casualties, taking somewhat less (63k) to slightly more (98k) casualties then the Allies (90k) depending on the sources involved (it's probably on the higher spectrum since the lower casualty figures rely on the heer's own statistics which tend to lowball it during the last year of the fighting due to lacking information making them base their statistics on the 1944 casualties.) Still, even then, and even with attacks that are more successful then their historic counterparts US casualties tend to be darn low due to their 4/6 casualty to straggler ratio compared to the German 3/6. This gets especially hard since the Germans struggle to create the large breakthroughs they need to hunt down and eliminate the stragglers before they run. I dont really see why the US needs this higher straggler ratio then the Germans, especially since the important and expensive steps are the specialists which dont create stragglers anyways.

Apart from that and the too powerful SpAT this seems real good though. I suggest reducing SpAT stats to something like 3 attack 6 defense 2 AT (maybe 1 if you give normal US infantry 1 defensive tank, like those German militia units). I regularly use SpAT to juice up both my infantry and tank units as the US to ridiculous degrees, pretty much never buying special forces or tank specialists the US offers. Not being able to rely on them to easily double the infantry's offensive power will give more reasons to use special forces and tank specialists in Infantry divisions, I think.
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Danielefc
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby Danielefc » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:19 pm

Hey Adronio, good to see you again and thanks for the extensive feedback :)

Yea now that things have calmed down we're considering looking at a few of the finer details of the specialists. Personally I would like to accomplish the following (and I think you are hinting at this but correct me if I'm wrong): Make the US SPAT useful in defense and the US Sherman useful in the offense and have them priced fairly similarly 15-20'ish. This will be playing into the "historical idea" behind the US TD force. Now in reality it didn't quite end up working as intended. But I think it will work well for game play purposes. However this will need extensive testing.

While on the subject: it is by design that the Allies are so enormously dependent on their specs for AT on the defense and Arty on the offense. It is an abstraction of heavy emphasis and reliance the Allies put on supporting arms - specially late war.

It is at times a problem that the specs are a bit too well protected as you mention. Me and Tom have discussed moving them a bit forward in the combat queue... and we also have a few other ideas floating around. Other than that it's intended that the Allied divisions are "sort of OP" since they arguably were ;).

Cheers!

Adronio
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby Adronio » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:07 pm

Sounds good, my main gripe is just that the SpAT is too effective at, well, pretty much everything for its cost, and it sounds like you have plans for it.

Still though, allied divisions produce ridiculous amounts of stragglers. I know you're going for that whole "the western allies were more careful with it troops" but I think you got it covered with the players who by instinct will want to coddle their precious divisions so they can get to veteran and elite and not cost them any prestige to add reenforcements. Decreasing the straggler ratio is in order I think.

Cheers.

Adronio
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby Adronio » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:13 am

Think I've started to get the Germans down. It's really all about being cautious and playing around the artillery, yours and most definitly the allies. Work towards always putting a river, forest or city between you and the enemy, and set yourself up for the next round of counter-attacks instead of trying to shove all your panzers into the breach like the little Prussian officer on your shoulder is telling you. Because oh boy, if you do that the allies are just going to shove artillery shells down your throat and laugh as your full strength panzer divisions has all their steps suppressed and then gets curbstomped by a single understrength infantry division. Also, Eliminating the enemy armour is as always really important, however it shouldnt come before preserving your own tanks, as if you manage to get a strong armour superiority you can finally start pushing around those infantry divisions without getting creamed by a souped up US tank division with elite experience.

Still kind of annoys me how easily US infantry can push my infantry even without their arty set up, but eh.
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juoc
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby juoc » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:14 am

Well, I've been pleasantly surprised with these two axis scenarios, which is promising for when the game expands to other theaters:) I'm guessing it's been more challenging to make the scenarios balanced on normal and classic while still being winnable on hard though, since allied infantry get so tough to dislodge at that difficulty.

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Danielefc
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Re: Update 11 test

Unread postby Danielefc » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:07 pm

@Juoc

Warms my cold heart to hear ;) Cheers!

@All

There is an additional scenario out today: "Kasserine". Should be substantially easier :)