Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

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Sixthe9th
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Sixthe9th » Thu May 24, 2012 10:54 am

Finally I managed to open all scenarios apart from 3rd Kharkov. However, I tried a lot the tactic by cutting off the Soviets supply lines in Stalingrad scenario. This tactic works only to achieve DV not BV. The Italians are only able to reach the northern supply crossroad by turn 6-7. I tried many combinations but they are basically unable to. Therefore, it has not any impact for the early battle at Stalingrad. The southern supply line even when captured really did not harm the russkies round the city at all, so to me it was unecessary move. I found my own tactic and only by using GD as the spearhead as there is no other division able to advance so rapidly to reach the city quick and battle the dug in NKVD troops. Moving quickly from south and simultaneously from west-north-west (this was rather fake maneouver to attach as many soviet units as possible) was my winning tactic for the BV here.

However, here comes a one big question upon the devs. I managed to spend all my prestige I earned on Stalingrad, but at the same time I finished it off on BV therefore definitely earning prestige. However, in my next battle in Terek I see my Prestige count on -425 !!!!! This must be a bug or do you have any explanations for that ? By pure logic, I should have 5+the BV Stalingrad bonus...instead I am far sub-zero. Why ?

Cheers

M>

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Thu May 24, 2012 3:37 pm

If you're seeing negative prestige in the headline on the campaign map (red arrow on the enclosed screenshot), that would definitely be a bug. Please send us a zip of your entire campaign folder in that case: go to saved games folder, the "campaign" folder is in there.

If you're seeing negative prestige in the campaign info sheet (green arrow in the screenshot), that's fine. It shows you how much prestige you spent playing a given scenario, not how much you currently have.

Cheers! :)

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Sixthe9th
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Sixthe9th » Thu May 24, 2012 4:13 pm

My case is the upper number, the overal prestige as you can see on the picture.
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Sixthe9th
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Sixthe9th » Thu May 24, 2012 4:15 pm

here is the campaign folder.

cheers

M.
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RambOrc
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby RambOrc » Thu May 24, 2012 8:48 pm

Sixthe9th wrote:However, I tried a lot the tactic by cutting off the Soviets supply lines in Stalingrad scenario. This tactic works only to achieve DV not BV. The Italians are only able to reach the northern supply crossroad by turn 6-7. I tried many combinations but they are basically unable to. Therefore, it has not any impact for the early battle at Stalingrad. The southern supply line even when captured really did not harm the russkies round the city at all, so to me it was unecessary move.


Here is a savegame from tonight where you can check out the supply cutting operation. Due to bad weather (mud in center at the start of turn 7) and bad tactical decision (keeping panzers too long in the north), I missed a BV this time, capping both city hexes on turn 9. You can still see how most Soviet units are completely suppressed by turn 7 (all relevant supply sources captured in German turn 5).

p.s. Tom, you can also see what I mean about the AI ignoring the captured supply bases, he spawns a tank right on top of the freshly captured Northern supply source, but instead of getting it back from the very weak Italian unit, the tank blissfully goes the other direction.
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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Fri May 25, 2012 8:48 am

Hi six,

this indeed looks very wrong. At this moment, I have no idea what may be causing it.

Sixthe9th wrote:here is the campaign folder.


I need the campaign folder from the saved games folder, not this one (this one is from "Program Files").

Please go to Main Menu -> Load Game -> Open Saved Games Folder. In there you will find the folder named "campaign" - please zip that folder and post it here.

Cheers!

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Fri May 25, 2012 8:58 am

RambOrc wrote:Tom, you can also see what I mean about the AI ignoring the captured supply bases, he spawns a tank right on top of the freshly captured Northern supply source, but instead of getting it back from the very weak Italian unit, the tank blissfully goes the other direction.


Yeah, not good, I've seen it already. The AI is told (wrongly!) not to bother with the defense of that supply source, and this is what you get. We did not include any AI fixes in this release for fears of upsetting the balance of play. Although, for this one in particular, uff... maybe we were a little too careful.

Anyway, for the next update we'll be running a bigger test group, so we'll be able to fix and test this (also another AI exploit we were alerted to, in the Dneper/Donbas scenario).

RambOrc
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby RambOrc » Fri May 25, 2012 9:04 am

Making the AI care about the supply sources would turn the supply cut operation from a BV strategy to an easy DV strategy (there is no way to stop the Germans from cutting all supply if they really want to, only to delay it).

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Fri May 25, 2012 9:10 am

We can give all sorts of different hints to the AI, so I think we will be able to effectively discourage this "northern push" strategy without changing the scenario itself.

If it doesn't work against a human opponent (and this one does not AFAIK) then, in principle, it should not work against the AI either. If the AI was given correct hints to begin with, of course :?

Sixthe9th
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Re: Ideas for fixing the Stalingrad BV problem?

Unread postby Sixthe9th » Fri May 25, 2012 11:32 am

oh bugger, i ve already started russian campaign :((