Orel/Briansk--Help!

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MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:26 pm

The problem is, you have to kill absolutely every unit in the south well before turn 5, other wise zone of control makes reaching Novgorod impossible. A couple of times I have been able to get close, but it's never enough. Even with tanks, the odds against that dug in unit are 5:0 against me, so I have to waste 3-4 entire armored divisions to have any chance of killing it. That means they all have to be intact, in supply, very close, AND completely unobstructed by other units, all by turn 6. I just see no way to do this. Everything I have tried fails. The Russians just do not have enough manpower to destroy 10-12 German units in that short timeframe.

Also, to get the supply situation into reasonable shape, it's necessary to take the rail link at Orel. That cannot be accomplished before turn 5, IME. That's a best case scenario. Encircle on turn 2, then besiege for three turns. Then attack and destroy and seize on turn 5. The only alternative is to waste 6 divisions in suicide missions with hopeless odds. You can eventually take the city earlier, but your manpower will be so low you won't have enough to win the scenario, certainly not on time.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:30 pm

juoc, when I load your saved game into my folder, it does not show up when I click "Load Game" from the main menu. Danielefc's does, though, so I know it's possible to use saved games from other players. I did exactly the same thing, I just copy and pasted it into my saved games folder. Any ideas?

Thanks.

juoc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby juoc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:16 pm

It's a campaign so you have to put all the files in the campaign folder and choose continue current campaign and then choose the Orel replay. Remember to back up your campaign.

I looked at my replay and I'm gonna vote for a supply increase in the south. The pros are:

-Taking out the veteran infantry on turn 2 becomes less vital.
-The fewer units in the north can be used solely for the encirclement instead of encirclement plus keeping a corridor to the south open.
-The AI will want to take out the north eastern supply center and will probably send a tank or motorized unit there. Let it, by turn 2 earliest. That's one less unit for you to deal with.
- The offensive in the south can progress slightly faster before Orel has fallen (I think).

The drawback is that you can't afford to lose your northern supply center so park a tank with a good specialist on it.

In the replay I make quite a few questionable moves in the south but it still works out pretty well, so there is a margin for error.

Units with artillery is good at breaking entrenchments so attack with one of those first if possible even if the odds are awful. Attacking after movement will not work so you have to be next to the unit at the beginning of the turn as Daniel mentioned earlier.

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Danielefc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby Danielefc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:59 pm

MarkClark wrote:Even when I destroy the forward most German infantry, it doesn't matter. They "bulge" around Orel, making it impossible to encircle. Or, almost impossible, I am able to do it sometimes. But in the south, never. And, I don't have enough men to keep them surrounded in the north, so my supply always gets cut.

The scenario is fine, as far as it goes, but timeline is just fucking ridiculous.


The more they bulge around Orel the better. The more units will be surrounded there :twisted: . What I usually find most difficult is when the Germans don't mass at Orel. Because then instead of one big encirclement I'll probably have to make 3 or 4 small ones. Which is possible but a headache of ZOC planning.

Here is another way where my encirclement of Orel failed:
Orel BrianskBVv2.usg


But again: upload a replay and you can get some useful feedback. :). Its hard to give hints and tips when we don't know 'whats happening'.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:05 pm

Closest I have come yet, I had four tanks on Novgorod at turn six, but didn't take it. Got the defender down to one step but no breach. Fak.

Thanks, I have not played campaigns so I didn't realize that was a different type of file.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:29 pm

Once again, got four tanks on Novgorod, could not destroy the unit. Odds are always 4:0 at best. How is this supposed to be possible?

And, yes, I had cut off his supply the prior turn,

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Danielefc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby Danielefc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:17 pm

MarkClark wrote:Once again, got four tanks on Novgorod, could not destroy the unit. Odds are always 4:0 at best. How is this supposed to be possible?

And, yes, I had cut off his supply the prior turn,


Without a replay I can't really say more than what Juoc and myself have already said.

At the end of your game just save and then go to: C:/users/YOURUSERNAME/appdata/roaming/Unity of Command/save and find your save. Or if you are playing a campaign game then just upload the entire campaign that has the same location and is just called 'campaign'.

Having four of your tanks on Novgorod on turn 6 means that you have enough armour to take out the German infantry even without cutting supply - assuming your tanks are relatively intact. IF this is the case then its just a matter of attacking in the right order. Always attack with the units that causes the maximum number of "step damage" first. This is not always the most powerful unit:

EXAMPLE:
Many times a weaker unit will suppress two steps and a stronger unit will kill one step. In cases such as this it is desireable to attack with the weaker unit first. then the stronger unit will crush the enemy in the next attack after it has had two steps suppressed. If you attack with the strongest unit first in this example then you will kill one step, but then your weaker unit will not be able to do much damage and the enemy will remain in his position.

In cases such as Novgorod it is very important to weaken the enemy first - before committing your most powerful unit to the final attack. This ensures that the final attack will overrun or destroy the enemy. It doesn't matter if your weaker units suffer in this process as the Germans can no longer counterattack.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:16 pm

So, I got four tanks on it, again, and this time destroyed the occupying unit. But then I didn't have enough movement points to enter the city.

I swear this game is laughing at me.

juoc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby juoc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:20 pm

Getting 4 tanks in position to strike Novgorod is good. Now get that unit out of supply a turn or two earlier using partisans and you should have no problem taking it out. Transferring T34-specialists to your tanks instead of giving them artillery or AT will help with the dislodging too but will leave them vulnerable an extra turn.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:13 pm

Sorry to be so annoying and I do appreciate your help. This is sort of mysterious.

So, the savegames files with numbers at the beginning--those are campaigns, right? So I download the files and put them in the "Campaign" folder which is inside "save," correct? Then I go to campaign off main men and click "continue current." But nothing is happening. It does not load, it just gives me the two buttons to start (axis or soviet) and then if I do that, it erases the file.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


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