Orel/Briansk--Help!

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juoc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby juoc » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:07 pm

I take it you've haven't tried for a BT BV campaign yet? Those first three scenarios are just ridiculous... :)

Anyway, you're not supposed to cut the railway line because as you noted, the AI will restore supply. Just put three partisans between the river tile next to the Hungarian infantry and the end of the map. Novgorod can not be reached by supply from the east and will be cut off for the rest of the scenario.

Regarding the tanks, I tried it now and there is no problem taking them both out on turn one. Soften them up with your T34-infantry and regular infantry and then finish them off without taking casualties with your tanks and veteran infantry. Preferably, don't keep your 5-step tanks left on the front line at the end of turn one. Giving them the free artillery and towed AT will be helpful in fighting of attacks from German infantry on later turns but won't help you on turn one.

Use the logistics to increase the range of the southern supply center and work your way forward. Yes you will have to be out of supply on turn 6 but as you know you can still attack if it's the first turn out of supply, so make sure you are in supply at the start of turn 5. I've found coming at Novgorod from the north is the easiest, so start moving northwest when you reach the railway line north to Briansk. Try to send the cavalry unit or some infantry to cut off Briansk if possible.

Btw Daniel, since you haven't bothered with a thread for Nordlicht. Nice work once again! :)

EDIT: It seems Daniel was faster than me and after looking at his replay I'd say that increasing the north-eastern supply probably is better, but cut Novgorod off as soon as possible the way i described.

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Danielefc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby Danielefc » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:48 pm

Cheers Juoc :)

All true. I never thought of cutting Novgorod with the partisans. I would've thought the AI would retake it. But as it doesn't then yes this will make it all very much easier.

For the first two years of this game I also increased the southern supply source... Then at some point after not having played for a long time I came back to this scenario and figured out that after Orel falls the rail supply is just as good as the southern source for the forces heading for Novgorod (and also supports Bryansk as a bonus).

Anyway - good pointers :).

PS. Yea 'Nordlicht' didn't need a beta as I saw it. From a design perspective its much simpler than 'Zitadelle-Kutuzov'. Also, it is in essence just a rework of my multiplayer scenario 'Sinyavino Offensive'. "Only" needed to set the AI, make some balance changes, add partisans and tune the objectives accordingly.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:11 am

Here's the way it is looking now.

I buy the attachment, they are suppressed until the beginning of the following turn. Which is to be expected. Then they are apparently ready to fight at the beginning of the next turn. UNTIL I move the unit, at which point they are greyed out again.

Ideas?

I do appreciate your help, BTW. Very addictive game, first one I've really enjoyed in a long, long time.

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Danielefc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby Danielefc » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:04 am

MarkClark wrote:Here's the way it is looking now.

I buy the attachment, they are suppressed until the beginning of the following turn. Which is to be expected. Then they are apparently ready to fight at the beginning of the next turn. UNTIL I move the unit, at which point they are greyed out again.

Ideas?

I do appreciate your help, BTW. Very addictive game, first one I've really enjoyed in a long, long time.


No worries :)

In the case of towed equipment (artillery and AT-guns) they need one turn to 'set-up' if moved. That is to say: They will be ready for defense when its the AI's turn - but not for attacking (if moved during your turn.). Katyushas and T-34s and other motorized stuff will always be ready to attack.

juoc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby juoc » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:11 am

If you're at a level where you're trying to get BVs on scenarios I suggest you do the old school thing and read the manual. It's 21 pages and really good...

One thing that you, or someone reading this, might not know is that units that have two or less active steps or have retreated this turn are weak and doesn't have a zone of control. This can be a especially useful when you have air support. Only one unit in reach of the last objective guarded by a 4-step unit? Use air attacks on it and hope it get's down to 2 or less active steps. Now your unit won't lose all of its movement points when moving next to the enemy unit and can both attack it and continue movement afterwards.

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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:39 pm

I cannot win this no matter what I do.

I have watched your playthrough several times. I have even gone so far as to try to match it move for move. But the AI never ever ever ever ever does for me what it does in your game. In particular, I find it very hard, though not quite impossible, to surround and cut off Orel by turn 2. I find it absolutely impossible to surround and cut off any units in the south on the second turn.

Hence there is no fucking way it is possible to get to Novgorod by turn 6.

juoc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby juoc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:47 am

Here's a BV soviet campaign I have saved. I don't follow my own advice in the replay but maybe increasing supply range in the south is easier after all.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Danielefc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby Danielefc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:13 am

MarkClark wrote:I cannot win this no matter what I do.

I have watched your playthrough several times. I have even gone so far as to try to match it move for move. But the AI never ever ever ever ever does for me what it does in your game. In particular, I find it very hard, though not quite impossible, to surround and cut off Orel by turn 2. I find it absolutely impossible to surround and cut off any units in the south on the second turn.

Hence there is no fucking way it is possible to get to Novgorod by turn 6.


If you upload a replay I'd be happy to give some pointers as to what is going wrong.

Duplicating mine move for move will not work as 'chance' has a roll to play in what moves are best to make in any given playthrough. Just an example: Sometimes you can destroy the forward most veteran german infantry division on turn 1 - sometimes not. It doesn't affect the possibility of a Brilliant Victory but it does affect turn 2.

MarkClark
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby MarkClark » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:44 am

Even when I destroy the forward most German infantry, it doesn't matter. They "bulge" around Orel, making it impossible to encircle. Or, almost impossible, I am able to do it sometimes. But in the south, never. And, I don't have enough men to keep them surrounded in the north, so my supply always gets cut.

The scenario is fine, as far as it goes, but timeline is just fucking ridiculous.

juoc
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Re: Orel/Briansk--Help!

Unread postby juoc » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:37 am

The veteran infantry on the railroad from Orel is less of a problem if you increase supply from the south. In my experience the AI group around Orel so a single infantry or tank from the north should be able to go wide and get somewhere west of Orel on turn 2. There's usually a gap in the AI lines in the south so getting a unit through to complete the encirclement should be doable. If not smash through, you should find some weak spot where a cavalry unit can get through. Use partisans to close the gap if needed. It doesn't matter if some units escape on turn 2 as long as you reestablish the encirclement of Orel on turn 3.

It's not necessary to make some big encirclement in the south, just kill of units while keeping your tanks as intact as possible.