Attack & Movement

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CaptKaz
First Lieutenant
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:02 am

Attack & Movement

Unread postby CaptKaz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:06 pm

Hey guys. It is something i havent figured out yet regarding this which i belive robs me for some of them sweet Decisive/Brilliant victories. On maps like Edelweiss i`m struggling hard to be on spot in time so got some questions for ya:


When attacking with armor/mechanized and one shotting an enemy, what is the premises for getting that overrun kill? And is it the overrun that causes the glorious second attack? 8-)

And has the outcome of an attack, overrun or not, anything to do regarding the units movement thereafter? What about Veterancy and Steps?

Finally, does the all mighty RNG interfere so that two identical attacks could anyway give different outcomes in terms of the above? :)

Thx

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Danielefc
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Re: Attack & Movement

Unread postby Danielefc » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:16 pm

First of you should know that Edelweiss is a tricky scenario to get a BV in.

But to answer your questions:

The odds of getting an overrun are shown in the combat-calculation window. Anything less than 80% is a no-go if you really need an overrun. And RNG plays a roll in every calculation in this game - the odds and percentages shown are just that: odds and percentages. Don't become a victim of the gamblers fallacy ;)

When you achieve an overrun you can use that unit to attack again - or move if it has not moved into an enemy ZoC. However each successfull overrun also surpresses one step of your unit so you cannot keep going forever.

The premise for getting an overrun is simply to have a much more powerfull unit attacking a weaker unit. Fully surpressed units are generally always overrun.

Overrun is key to many (if not most) scenarios. It gives you that edge you need to get through an enemy that outnumbers you. Sometimes its a good idea to weaken a unit with infantry to allow the more powerfull armour/mech/mot units to overrun and then breakthrough.

Veterancy is gained by killing enemy steps:

10 steps: Veteran
25 steps: Elite

Be carefull when reinforcing your veteran units. A veteran units needs an additional 5 kills to allow it to be reinforced with a single step without regressing to a normal unit. This number is 10 for an elite unit.

Hope this helps

CaptKaz
First Lieutenant
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:02 am

Re: Attack & Movement

Unread postby CaptKaz » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:05 pm

Wow, thanks for great answers good sir!

I`ll dive back in with my newfound knowledge (and my newfound Red Turn DLC, 2,65 euros on Steam atm. Bargain!) :)

CaptKaz
First Lieutenant
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:02 am

Re: Attack & Movement

Unread postby CaptKaz » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:04 pm

I see you also get a second attack if the enemy retreats, but if that retreating unit was alone i`m not able to move after. Seems like you have only one stationary attack regardless of move points left? Is that so or is it maybe because my unit already had moved a couple of tiles to the fight?

EDIT: Guess it`s because all MP is gone after moving in to ZOC


Anyways got a Decisive Vic at Edelweiss and more than happy with that for now :) Terek seems to be a hefty challenge tho...
Last edited by CaptKaz on Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HappyDaze
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Re: Attack & Movement

Unread postby HappyDaze » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:27 pm

Danielefc wrote:Sometimes its a good idea to weaken a unit with infantry to allow the more powerfull armour/mech/mot units to overrun and then breakthrough.


I've played that way, and that tactic definitely has its place. However, recently I have begun turning that around. I use armored or other powerful units to weaken an enemy unit and then finish it off with a weaker and thus more vulnerable infantry unit. This keeps my infantry more up to strength, a powerful consideration especially in those scenarios where you don't have infantry to burn. The first few turns of a game I am really trying to attrite the enemy to the greatest degree possible. The fewer units he has by mid-game, the easier it is to penetrate his defenses.

Happy

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Danielefc
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Re: Attack & Movement

Unread postby Danielefc » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:06 am

CaptKaz wrote:I see you also get a second attack if the enemy retreats, but if that retreating unit was alone i`m not able to move after. Seems like you have only one stationary attack regardless of move points left? Is that so or is it maybe because my unit already had moved a couple of tiles to the fight?

EDIT: Guess it`s because all MP is gone after moving in to ZOC


Anyways got a Decisive Vic at Edelweiss and more than happy with that for now :) Terek seems to be a hefty challenge tho...


Yup - Moving into a ZoC removes all further movement points (except for unit with a recon attachment). And yea Terek can easily make a BV impossible with some bad weather - Hell a victory at all can be hard if the RNG gods are against you.

HappyDaze wrote:
Danielefc wrote:Sometimes its a good idea to weaken a unit with infantry to allow the more powerfull armour/mech/mot units to overrun and then breakthrough.


I've played that way, and that tactic definitely has its place. However, recently I have begun turning that around. I use armored or other powerful units to weaken an enemy unit and then finish it off with a weaker and thus more vulnerable infantry unit. This keeps my infantry more up to strength, a powerful consideration especially in those scenarios where you don't have infantry to burn. The first few turns of a game I am really trying to attrite the enemy to the greatest degree possible. The fewer units he has by mid-game, the easier it is to penetrate his defenses.

Happy


Very true: However for many scenarios penetrating fast & deep will render the enemy units out of supply and thus easy to mop up by anything (including those pesky axis minors). But as you say sometimes it better to try and destroy a large section of front at the expense of movement... decisions decisions... :)

HappyDaze
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Re: Attack & Movement

Unread postby HappyDaze » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:59 pm

Danielefc wrote:
HappyDaze wrote:
Danielefc wrote:Sometimes its a good idea to weaken a unit with infantry to allow the more powerfull armour/mech/mot units to overrun and then breakthrough.


I've played that way, and that tactic definitely has its place. However, recently I have begun turning that around. I use armored or other powerful units to weaken an enemy unit and then finish it off with a weaker and thus more vulnerable infantry unit. This keeps my infantry more up to strength, a powerful consideration especially in those scenarios where you don't have infantry to burn. The first few turns of a game I am really trying to attrite the enemy to the greatest degree possible. The fewer units he has by mid-game, the easier it is to penetrate his defenses.

Happy


Very true: However for many scenarios penetrating fast & deep will render the enemy units out of supply and thus easy to mop up by anything (including those pesky axis minors).


Nice idea, but it takes at least two turns for OOS units to weaken at all and three for them to be completely suppressed from lack of supply. And since the time limits in most scenarios is already tight, the player (in this case me) can't afford the luxury of hanging around and waiting for supply effects to kick in. Plus, those surrounded units are not likely to just sit around waiting to die. They will be trying to find a gap and escape through it. None of this is unrealistic; this was a common problem for attackers in the real war. Encirclements tended to be leaky. So the upshot is that far more often than not I go for the quick kill.

Still, you raise a good point. Which is, if you can cut a supply far enough back from the front, you can put many enemy units OOS and not all of them may be able to escape. But again, it usually isn't that simple. There are usually multiple supply sources and supply paths. And your deeply penetrating units are themselves vulnerable to isolation and loss. I've noticed that the AI is particularly good at spotting opportunities to exploit this :( :x to my detriment, and I really hate losing those armored steps. As always, and as you noticed, it is always a balancing act between options and the player has to pick the one that will work best (or at least the less worst) in the particular circumstance.

Happy


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