Better than brilliant victories

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sourdust
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Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby sourdust » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:05 am

Inspired by the infamous 2-turn Stalingrad win, I've been going back through the official scenarios and seeing just how far I could break them - ie, getting a brilliant victory in as few turns as possible by playing tricks on the AI, exploiting loopholes and playing in a totally a-historical and gamey way.

Following are my results for Black Turn scenarios:

AGN – official BV in 6 turns, not possible any faster?
AGC – BV in 5, possible to do in 4.
AGS – BV in 5, not possible any faster?
Estonia – BV in 9, possible in 6.
Kiev – BV in 7, possible in 4.
Dash to the Donets – BV in 6, possible in 4.
Luga to Leningrad – BV in 7, possible in 5.
Smolensk – BV in 5, possible in 4.
Tartar Ditch – BV in 4, possible in 3.
Uman Pocket – BV in 5, possible in 3.
Donbas Nip – BV in 7, possible in 6. And maybe in 5 or even 4 with immense luck?
Lake Ladoga – BV in 7, possible in 5.
Taifun – BV in 14, possible in 12. Perhaps as low as 10 with great luck?

Moscow Offensive – BV in 6, possible in 5.
January Offensive – BV in 10, possible in 6.

Happy to provide game files for the above if anybody's interested.

I would love to know if anybody has beat any of these!

EDIT - Managed to get Smolensk done in 4.
EDIT - Got Estonia done in 6. Requires lots of luck on retreat rolls!
EDIT - tidying up some loose ends: got January Offensive done in 6, as I suspected was possible!
Last edited by sourdust on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:37 am, edited 5 times in total.

sourdust
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby sourdust » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:03 am

And here's the original UoC scenarios... interesting that all of them can be done faster than the "brilliant victory" thresholds, except for Voronezh (I think!).

2d Kharkov – BV in 5, possible in 3
Voronezh – BV in 3, possible in 2 with immense good luck!
Case Blue – BV in 6, possible in 5. Theoretically possible in 4?
Edelweiss – BV in 10, possible in 8.
Terek – BV in 6, possible in 5. Maybe 4?
Stalingrad – BV in 8 – can be done in 2, as shown by Benjamin Thomas
Astrakhan – BV in 5, possible in 4.
Baku – BV in 11, possible in 9. Maybe 8?
Kuibyshev – BV in 14, possible in 12. Maybe even earlier

3rd Kharkov – BV in 6, possible in 3.

Uranus – BV in 2, possible in 1
Little Saturn – BV in 4, possible in 3
Race for Rostov – BV in 7, possible in 4
Don Offensives – BV in 5, possible in 4.
Orel Briansk – BV in 7, possible in 6
Gallop/Star – BV in 7, possible in 5
Dneper Donbas – BV in 7, possible in 5

Introductory Scenario – BV in 4, possible in 2.

EDIT - 3rd Kharkov can be done in 3.
EDIT - I worked out that Voronezh can in fact be done in 2 turns. It requires near-perfection in a precise sequence of air attack, retreat and overrun rolls. I've done it with save scum, I think the chances of pulling it off in a real game without saves are vanishingly small!
EDIT - Confirmed Don Offensives can be done in 4, as suspected.
Last edited by sourdust on Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:01 am, edited 4 times in total.

sourdust
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby sourdust » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:17 am

And no sooner do I post that, and I manage a BV3 win on 3rd Kharkov! Low odds but possible...

sourdust
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby sourdust » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:42 am

Red Turn scenarios:

Rumyantsev – BV in 5, possible in 2
Advance on Kiev – BV in 8, possible in 7. Maybe 6?
Crossing the Dnieper – BV in 5, possible in 4
Lower Dnieper – BV in 5, possible in 4
Kiev – BV in 6, possible in 3.
Leningrad – BV in 9, possible in 6.
Rovno-Korsun – BV in 8, possible in 5.
To the Dniester – BV in 6, possible in 4.
Baltic Offensive – BV in 7, possible in 4.
Gulf of Riga – BV in 4, possible in 3
Bagration – BV in 6, possible in 5
2nd Iassy-Kishinev – BV in 3, possible in 2
Lvov-Sandomierz – BV in 5, possible in 4 (Conceivably in 3, but would require tremendous good luck)
Debrecen – BV in 6, possible in 3
Vistula-Oder – BV in 7, possible in 5
East Prussia – BV in 5, possible in 3
Berlin – BV in 4, possible in 3


Zitadelle – BV in 2, can’t be done faster
Zhitomir – BV in 2, can’t be done faster

EDIT: Vistula-Oder can be done in 5
EDIT: Leningrad can be done in 6
EDIT: I keep finding ways to shave off turns... Debrecen can be done in 3, with a bit of luck. OK, a lot of luck.
EDIT: To the Dniester can be done in 4
EDIT: East Prussia can be done in 3
Last edited by sourdust on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:18 am, edited 5 times in total.

sourdust
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby sourdust » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:48 am

I know I'm pretty much talking to myself here. But anyway, man was it fun revisiting all the core scenarios now that I really know the game inside and out, and seeing how far I could push it.

The best surprise was Rovno-Korsun, which I have always regarded as the hardest scenario, mostly because of that tough panzer unit that always moves into Zhitomir and refuses to be evicted except with the greatest of luck. I didn't really think that I would be able to shave any time off the 8 turn brilliant victory, given in the past my very few brilliant victories here were very much by the skin of my teeth.

Imagine my surprise to find that Zhitomir can indeed be taken on turn 1 with a very particular sequence of attacks... and it doesn't even require extraordinary luck. And taking Zhitomir really unhinges the AI's defence, it doesn't know quite what to do next, and most Axis units can be put out of supply by turn 2. I ended up beating the scenario in 5 turns. I think it's the best moment yet in UoC for me!

That's it for now, back to waiting for UoC2...

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uran21
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby uran21 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:22 am

Nice information you got here! Congratulation on the effort. What would interest me is how many tries did it take you to achieve those results considering you are veteran of before? My impression was how there is a lot of randomness in the game when going for the BV. Also, did you used prestige to buy new stuff in those tries?

sourdust
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby sourdust » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:14 pm

How long did it take... well, I think I have 400-odd hours in the game all up! For this most recent effort at "ultimate speed runs", I'd say I gave most scenarios between 3 and 12 tries; a few which require a lot of luck I might have restarted several dozen times until the dice came out the right way. And on a few I save-scummed. I don't mind doing that, given the point was to see what was theoretically possible.

All of the above times were accomplished without any use of prestige.

As for normal brilliant victories, on the stated timeframes, you're right there is an element of luck involved in some of them. Others have a pretty generous timeframe; it's pretty hard not to get a BV on Rumyantsev or Kiev Encirclement, once you know how to play well enough. But even after dozens of playthroughs, I still find certain scenarios - Army Group North, 2d Kharkov, Edelweiss etc - require the gods of the dice to smile upon you. And even easy scenarios like Uman Pocket can be lost if the weather is miserable!
Last edited by sourdust on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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uran21
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Re: Better than brilliant victories

Unread postby uran21 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:31 pm

Thanks for the info. This corresponds to my previous impression. I think this is also one of the things that could be improved in a new game, more skill and less randomness for the highest level of victory. And of course, extraordinary result and effort, like the one you showed, could have bonus reward in terms of "points".


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