On the brittleness of Engineer steps

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funky_trader
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On the brittleness of Engineer steps

Unread postby funky_trader » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:26 pm

Ever since the latest patch which introduced changes to how engineer behave, I’ve develop PTSD syndromes from playing UoC. I started having these recurring dreams of mass graves filled with engineers. Dead engineers’ bodies, littered from the shores of Africa to those of Normandy. The Rhine river, made crossable by all those dead engineers piled one upon another.

/jk

However, I did notice a massive increase in Engineer step casualty. Not only have they been transferred to first in line of steps to suffer casualties, but they also seem to die even when the odds are clearly in your favour.
At this point, I’ve seen a bit too many instances of this: a unit with an engineer step attacks with something like 90% retreat/40% overrun odds. Yet, the engineer step still gets blown up. Like what happened? They walked at too brisk a pace, tripped, and fell down on their bayonnette? :lol:

So my behaviour has changed quite a lot. Prior to that patch, engineer equipped units would be leading the spearheads, attacking left and right. Now, I keep them in reserve to siege fortified units in cities. Engineers are far too brittle to be used on the offensive. Set Piece Attack is pretty much the only thing they are good for. If you use them to actually attack, there’s something like a 50% chance the step won’t survive the scenario.

Perhaps I’m slightly exaggerating here on their death rate, but it definitely did change how I use them. If that was the intended results, kudos! You’ve made them far more precious while they are still just as required as before.

In fact, their prestige cost of 30 in the deployment phase is a steal at this point. They are close to MVP (commandos and amphibious tanks being a close call for their abilities to negate river crossing penalties along with additional attack power). Given Engineers’ excruciating brittleness, I often buy a few steps at the start of each scenario after a conference, and immediately put them in my force pool using reorg. Loading up the HQ with spare engineers is very useful, and doesn’t cost all that much. Did your engineer died of a sudden heart attack from attacking this 3 step suppressed infantry unit in grassland? Doesn’t matter, you can redeploy them immediately!

Anyways, that was my feedback on the subject. Not necessarily a bad change. I’ve started using commandos and amphibious tanks a lot more. But it is a tad annoying to witness such carnage, especially when the combat odds look to be clearly in your favour

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Danielefc
2x2 Games
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Re: On the brittleness of Engineer steps

Unread postby Danielefc » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:00 pm

Well - I'm happy/sad (depending on your opinion on the matter) to report that this is precisely what was intended ;)

In gameplay terms: Engineers are meant to be a fortification/city/river busting tool - not the end-all be-all of every combat. Their "new" fragility means that using them carefully just like you're doing... is the smart thing to do.
In terms of realism: Combat engineers were the tip of the spear many times and as a consequence suffered horrible casualty rates.

Cheers!

AgentTBC
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Re: On the brittleness of Engineer steps

Unread postby AgentTBC » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:52 am

The pile of Engineer corpses grows! I set a new record for myself just now, losing to KIA *3* engineer specialists in a single turn assaulting Aachen in the "Push to the Ruhr" scenario. These guys are either very brave or very stupid, possibly both.

Having to take Aachen on turn 1 doesn't leave a lot of other options that I could see.

funky_trader
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Re: On the brittleness of Engineer steps

Unread postby funky_trader » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:21 pm

AgentTBC wrote:The pile of Engineer corpses grows! I set a new record for myself just now, losing to KIA *3* engineer specialists in a single turn assaulting Aachen in the "Push to the Ruhr" scenario. These guys are either very brave or very stupid, possibly both.

Having to take Aachen on turn 1 doesn't leave a lot of other options that I could see.


Yeah the start of that scenario is rough if your elite units don't start right next to Aachen. Engineers on regular units will tend to end up in river beds pretty quickly

Eqqman
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Re: On the brittleness of Engineer steps

Unread postby Eqqman » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:58 pm

funky_trader wrote:So my behaviour has changed quite a lot. Prior to that patch, engineer equipped units would be leading the spearheads, attacking left and right. Now, I keep them in reserve to siege fortified units in cities. Engineers are far too brittle to be used on the offensive. Set Piece Attack is pretty much the only thing they are good for. If you use them to actually attack, there’s something like a 50% chance the step won’t survive the scenario.

Yep, same here. I find it overly risky even on 0:X attacks to use Engineers unless the enemy unit is completely suppressed. If there is no attack needing to be made that specifically calls for their use I might even go as far as to recommend pulling them off their attached unit so that you don't risk losing it on an enemy counterattack or air attack. It's also helpful as you say to get a supply in the HQ force pool so they can be deployed out exactly where needed.

I do have a minor nitpick though in that Engineers seem to be an absolute requirement in order to get the ability to remove entrenchment to actually work. If I do this attack without an engineer present the odds of it failing to do anything at all seem way too high.