Race Across France

Ask, comment, read.
JayT
Captain
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:34 pm

Race Across France

Unread postby JayT » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:09 pm

Hi gents,

While playing the Race across France scenario in my hard lvl campaign, the German AI blows one of the two bridges to Verdun on the 1st turn. Now I understand this is meant to be hard mode, however, it makes it quite literally impossible to reach Verdun on turn 2.

I have played this scenario quite a few times before and this is the first instance I have seen this. I then replayed it a few times more and it the AI proceeds to do it every game.

Is this by design? if so, it makes this particular scenario nigh on impossible to get a gold star. Even without the Verdun bridge going up in smoke it makes for an incredibly tough scenario and in my opinion, one of the toughest in the game.

On a side note, is there any players out there with any ideas of how to complete a brilliant victory on this scenario on hard mode?

In hindsight, it seems not taking Lyon was a serious mistake in Operation Dragoon. I thought I could take it on the chin when the Pz. Division parked itself on Lyon on the 5th turn, although it seems that I should have restarted and ensured Lyon was in my control.

Cheers,
JT

genBrooks
Brigadier General
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby genBrooks » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:48 pm

I wasn't able to do it on the hard level
I understand that you finished the other maps with Brilliant victory on hard mode ? :shock:

I managed to do it with Lorraine scenario and few other maps
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

funky_trader
Major
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby funky_trader » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:47 am

JayT wrote: While playing the Race across France scenario in my hard lvl campaign, the German AI blows one of the two bridges to Verdun on the 1st turn. Now I understand this is meant to be hard mode, however, it makes it quite literally impossible to reach Verdun on turn 2.


I seems unlikely to me that the AI can do that. As shown in the picture below, along with suggested move to win, the AI's HQ isn't in range of any of Verdun's bridge on turn 1. Are you playing an older/unpatched version? I know the devs cut some of the map on the eastern edge, meaning the HQ might have had a longer area of control prior to the patch. BTW, in my "not at all paint edited" picture, pink lines denote movement path of 7th armored, blue lines denote movement path of 4th armored, and black lines denote movement path of 5th ID. I took the picture in the standalone scenario, which is quite terrible since 3rd Army HQ starts without the ability to build bridges, and you absolutely need one built in the deployment phase (this needs to be achieved in a campagin where you upgraded 3rd HQ). Also, both of your tanks need M8 Greyhound to capture territory.

JayT wrote: In hindsight, it seems not taking Lyon was a serious mistake in Operation Dragoon. I thought I could take it on the chin when the Pz. Division parked itself on Lyon on the 5th turn, although it seems that I should have restarted and ensured Lyon was in my control.


Taling Lyon is a prerequisite to finishing this with a brilliant victory. I already have a hard time with it, I can't see how you would do it without.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

JayT
Captain
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby JayT » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:33 pm

genBrooks wrote:I wasn't able to do it on the hard level
I understand that you finished the other maps with Brilliant victory on hard mode ? :shock:

I managed to do it with Lorraine scenario and few other maps


Hey Gen, nice work on Lorraine! It can be a toughy that one.

Regarding my Hard lvl campaign, it all went to plan up until Race across France. I tried to get golds on all on hard but it seems like that has gone out the window now. Here's what it looks like so far.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

JayT
Captain
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby JayT » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:03 pm

I seems unlikely to me that the AI can do that. As shown in the picture below, along with suggested move to win, the AI's HQ isn't in range of any of Verdun's bridge on turn 1. Are you playing an older/unpatched version? I know the devs cut some of the map on the eastern edge, meaning the HQ might have had a longer area of control prior to the patch. BTW, in my "not at all paint edited" picture, pink lines denote movement path of 7th armored, blue lines denote movement path of 4th armored, and black lines denote movement path of 5th ID. I took the picture in the standalone scenario, which is quite terrible since 3rd Army HQ starts without the ability to build bridges, and you absolutely need one built in the deployment phase (this needs to be achieved in a campagin where you upgraded 3rd HQ). Also, both of your tanks need M8 Greyhound to capture territory.


Hey funk trader, thanks for the excellent post and sublime illustration mate!

Seems strange that I could have had one of the Verdun bridges blow up on turn 1 seeing the German HQ. Even weirder was how it was the closest one (near the second red circle from the left). Should have screen capped it there and then but I was so adamant on restarting to get a different outcome.

Your template of how to get the objectives on time for the 3rd army is definitely spot on and how it should be done. However, my problems arose with the objectives in the south with that 5th turn objective across the river tasked with the 7th Army. My agony over that sector came from:

- The unreliable supply network (advancing through the peninsula and not the narrow route along the railway, albeit that was my choice, but I felt it was the best option)
- Unable to reinforce the French armoured division in the deployment phase (as well as two other inf divisions)
- Bridges getting blown up at the wrong time
- A panzer division parking itself on the urban objective

I managed to get a brilliant victory on this scenario with my classic campaign but that was with Lyon captured beforehand. I thought I could really challenge myself this time, but alas, after around 7 or so restarts I gave up on the pursuit of a gold star. It seems taking Lyon while minimising your casualties in Operation Dragoon is a must.

Do you have any suggestions on how to advance the 7th Army? It's a real puzzle that relies on a lot of speed and luck in my opinion.

Cheers,

JT
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

funky_trader
Major
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby funky_trader » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:15 am

JayT wrote:However, my problems arose with the objectives in the south with that 5th turn objective across the river tasked with the 7th Army. My agony over that sector came from:

- The unreliable supply network (advancing through the peninsula and not the narrow route along the railway, albeit that was my choice, but I felt it was the best option)
- Unable to reinforce the French armoured division in the deployment phase (as well as two other inf divisions)
- Bridges getting blown up at the wrong time
- A panzer division parking itself on the urban objective

I managed to get a brilliant victory on this scenario with my classic campaign but that was with Lyon captured beforehand. I thought I could really challenge myself this time, but alas, after around 7 or so restarts I gave up on the pursuit of a gold star. It seems taking Lyon while minimising your casualties in Operation Dragoon is a must.

Do you have any suggestions on how to advance the 7th Army? It's a real puzzle that relies on a lot of speed and luck in my opinion.

Cheers,

JT


Hey JayT

That 5th turn objective is indeed a pain to have, and in my opinon, requires:

  1. Luck!
  2. A nearly perfect Dragoon (Lyon taken, few units with casualties, especially not the tank as you won't be able to reinforce). Try to reinforce or swap some steps between your units right before Dragoon ends if possible
  3. Advancing along both the railway line and the peninsula at the same time. This set-ups you up for Dijon as well. I typically send two infantry and sometimes the tank as well along the railway, while the others rush on the peninsula towards Besançon. This strategy has three advantage.
    1. You extend your supply lines all the way to Dijon, and then to Besançon as well
    2. These units do not require emergency supplies
    3. If you build bridges between the railway and the peninsula, and you keep your other infantry units hugging the river, most of them will never be out of supply as well. You can extend the range of you supply depots as well with that method. Plop one, keep one in reserve. The next turn remove the other you planted as our units have advanced, plop the other one closer to the front. Rinse and repeat.
  4. Planting decoy bridges for the AI to blow up instead of the important ones. The AI is trigger happy with blowing up bridges, so I often create some in areas that I don't need, but that the AI can blow up on his turn. This can tip the scale in your favour if it prefers to blow up your pontoons, but forgets to blow up (or doesn't have the CP to blow up) the key bridges that you need to cross. The tank with the M8 Greyhound is great in that regard, as it can capture territory where you can plant a bridge, but have no unit close to it, so the AI can blow it up.
  5. Try to use envelopment tactics to confuse the AI. If you have units at the brige from Dijon, one at the tip of the peninsula, and one trying to cut the railway going into the mountain, the AI is often unable to stop all of your advances, or is confused and only focuses on one or two.
  6. Little to no bad weather. So luck! :)

Hope it helps. A lot of these are frustrating when you aim for perfection. I usually only get Besançon on turn 6, but call it good enough ( in the sense that what the hell, Dijon is clearly more important to capture first from a strategic standpoint, and I often do! lol)

funky_trader
Major
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby funky_trader » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:27 am

Another thing to say: be liberal with the use of motor pools at the start of the scenario. You need to zerg rush them and put your infantry in place. Here's a pic of the opening turn of the standalone scenario (with the Lyon variant). The rest should be fairly straighforward, and highly dependant on how the AI reacts.

Race across France is highly formulaic in its opening turns, but then opens up somewhat afterwards. Not as interesting as other scenarios in my opinion

Hope it helps!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

sourdust
Brigadier General
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:30 am

Re: Race Across France

Unread postby sourdust » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:09 am

It's definitely possible for the AI to blow the Verdun bridge on turn 1, I've had it happen as well.

I think the AI blows bridges only when they are within x hexes of the front line... and I believe "x" is slightly less than the full move plus extended move of a US armored division. So the key here is to make sure your tank will have just enough move to reach Verdun on T2 - don't move it any closer, or it will trigger the AI's "blow bridge" reflex!