The Unit Balance Thread

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Ryan
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Re: The Unit Balance Thread

Unread postby Ryan » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:13 am

I generally don't understand why AT specialists steps have such a huge armor shift. For example, M10 has 3* and QF-17 has 4*. In reality, tank destroyers are just cheap replacement for tanks. They aren't significantly better than normal tanks in anti-tank roles. A battalion of m10s has the same armor shift as an entire allies armor division (5x6) just seems not right to me. They should have similar armor shift as normal tanks: 1* for m10 (it makes sense for 10 prestiges) and 2* for firefly, etc. This will make allies infantry divisions a little more vulnerable to German panzer divisions in open terrain and will encourage players to use entrenchment more (2x armor value) to defend them.

JBerg2021
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Re: The Unit Balance Thread

Unread postby JBerg2021 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:50 pm

Seeing as Update 12 added a whole bunch of new units and made some adjustments to certain Support Steps, I wanted to bump this thread and make another plug for adding the M36 Tank Destroyer for the US, starting in the October/November timeframe of the campaign. Now that the M26 Pershing has been added as heavy armor for the US, it seems like there is a basis for the 90mm cannon stats (specifically a +4 armor shift).

I think it's clear the M10 would remain the most prevalent US TD in the game, but starting to make the M36 available for purchase to assign to a limited number of units would be great, and simulate the somewhat more limited distribution of those units. I know the US Armored Divisions can get themselves to parity with the Panzers relatively simply, but the M36 was historically the best tool the US had to knock out Panthers and Tigers.

Eqqman
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Re: The Unit Balance Thread

Unread postby Eqqman » Sun May 17, 2020 8:30 am

Hello-

Sorry to bring back up an old discussion that has kind of died out but when I first read through it I had far less experience with the game.

I'm surprised to hear people saying they pull tank specialists off infantry (and in at least one of the Sampstra Games videos, this gets said as well). I find these specialists to be the only reliable way for infantry to kill infantry if you want to get a 0:X kill rate. Without this infantry is frequently forced to use feint attacks that use up valuable command points and depending on the situation may even fail to suppress any enemy steps. If I had my druthers I'd give tank specialists all around but the prestige cost if too high. In far too many scenarios the divisions that have too many AT specialists end up with 3:0 or worse odds when attacking. If I'm scared off attacking from the odds, then battle progress grinds to a halt.

I also did like Greyhounds as they appeared to have the best cost for the benefit, but they quickly fell out of favor as they get placed in the top-level step and are frequently prone to being killed off, even in 0:1 attacks. I've switched to buying things that are buried a little more deeply in the unit since constantly replacing lost specialists is a major drain on prestige when playing the campaign.

JBerg2021
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Re: The Unit Balance Thread

Unread postby JBerg2021 » Fri May 22, 2020 7:41 pm

As it concerns Anti-Tank, Armor and Heavy Armor Specialists, I wonder if it's possible for there to be a different armor shift applicability to Infantry or Armor base units. After all, adding a tank destroyer to an armor unit doesn't necessarily have the same punch as adding one to an infantry unit. I would think that adding these specialists to armor could result in 2 of the armor shifts being provided being negated, so adding the M4 to an armor division results in no armor shift, adding an M10 results in a 1 armor shift, and adding a M26 results in a +2 armor shift.

Obviously this would apply to the Axis as well, and make those Konigtiger supported SS Panzer Divisions a little less insane.

sourdust
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Re: The Unit Balance Thread

Unread postby sourdust » Wed May 27, 2020 3:53 am

Eqqman, the Greyhound's first position in the "kill order" is one of its main advantages! It's far better to lose a 15-prestige recon step than a 20- or more prestige armor step, plus losing the Greyhound means no loss of experience for the unit, whereas losing a core step means a loss of experience. The greyhounds are just plain good value for money, all around. Every time I lose a Greyhound, I think to myself "whew, dodged a bullet there!"

Eqqman
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Re: The Unit Balance Thread

Unread postby Eqqman » Wed May 27, 2020 6:49 pm

That may be true if Greyhounds are attached to armor, but not infantry. With a more powerful specialist I can do attacks where nobody is lost. I wouldn't say I don't use 'em but it's just too fragile for widespread use. A good use is Recon/Artillery/Artillery so I can soften up other units and avoid counterattack.