Unternehmen 25 on Classic

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uran21
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Unternehmen 25 on Classic

Unread postby uran21 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:55 am

Beograd has to be captured in 3 Turns on Classic difficulty. What was the designer's intention on how to achieve this?

Some notes on historical background. Mobile elements of the Second Army were to secure bridges on Hungarian border and head east to Belgrade. In the meantime, they were redirected to Sarajevo with only elements heading in the original direction. In the game, I found them too far away and fragile with the supply situation. First Panzer Group (Kleist) were to head from Bulgaria but I never managed to make it on time. XLI Panzer Corps closed near Belgrade fastest but they found bridges to be destroyed so they sent out patrols on rafts to enter the city. Is this the key to the solution?

XLI HQ has no bridge building ability but it has River Crossing ability. The problem with river crossing is it can’t be used by Motorized Infantry. To solve this in the battle preparation phase one can detach at least 3 infantry steps from SS Motorized division. They can be placed on a map as a Security Unit and use River Crossing ability. In order to dislodge defenders, heavy airstrikes may be required but this Security Unit will be unable to move next turn so some other unit needs to occupy the city. Having an intact bridge helps here since it is possible to cross now when the other side is not guarded.

While trying to dissect this situation I found several other ways to do it as well.

Use paratroopers if you have the card. Ahistorical and easy but you might need that card in Greece.

Lend Hungarian HQ to build a bridge for your XLI Panzer Corps. It requires some thoughtful execution of moves and it can be RNG dependent but it worked as the first successful solution for me.

And my favorite solution is…

...put a recon specialist in the SS Motorized division. Weaken visible YU infantry with airstrikes so your SS division can use extended movement all the way to Belgrade bridge. If you want town captured on turn one destroy the supply dump in the town before SS unit moves and recon specialist will capture the town. If XLI HQ was moved closer to the front during battle preparation you will be able to position HQ in Belgrade itself. Since overrunning HQ requires more movement points, far away YU infantry will not be able to do it. On subsequent turns garrison the city and secure the supply line in the rear. It is less RNG dependent and mission accomplished on Turn 1.

Does anyone else have more ideas how to do this in 3 turns?

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Danielefc
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Re: Unternehmen 25 on Classic

Unread postby Danielefc » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:18 pm

I believe you have figured out all the ways in which it can be done. But it would be interesting to see if people have thought of other ways.

Your favorite approach is sort of what was intended. But currently none of the ways to take Belgrade are truly working as I would have liked them to. Indeed this is my "scenario of lost opportunities". It was the final scenario to be completed for the DLC and there wasn't enough time for the needed "love and attention". As we are having a slow'ish time at the office I'm considering doing some redesign work on this one.

Cheers!

funky_trader
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Re: Unternehmen 25 on Classic

Unread postby funky_trader » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:58 pm

I've typically done it in two ways

  1. Make the Hungarian HQ push towards Beograde on the east side of the Danube such that it can build a bridge. This is somewhat luck dependant on the AI not defending the other side of the river, so not a high sucess rate
  2. Use 8 PzD. 16 ID takes out the Yugoslavian infantry on the first turn. 8 PzD (typically reinforced with a recon specialist) then uses its action point to increase movement range, ending the first turn besides Osijek. Send 16 ID after it. On turn two, make both again use their action point for extended movements. This should put 8 PzD within range to attack Beograde on the next turn, with 16 ID not far behind it. Be aggressive with Hungarian unit positioning such that it sucks defending units to Novi Sad instead of them sticking to the railway to Beograd. On turn 3, 16 ID takes out the potentially remaining Yugoslavian units west of Beograd (if any). 8 Pzd should then have a clear shot to attack Beograd directly. A combination of flying artiellery and air attack guarantees success. Make SS DR and IR GrD cross the bridge to clear out stragglers, HQ, and nearby units.

Number 2 remains RNG dependant, but has a high success rate.

It still is a weird time restriction. For example, Zagrab is typically taken on turn 2 (instead of 3) by 14 Pzd and assorted supporting infantery. Ljubljana can be taken turn 3 or 4 instead of 5. So all the western objectives are extremely easy to take ahead of time while Beograd can easily brake your streak. The fact that PzG Kleist has no chance to even be in range of Beograd is also problematic. The retreating Yugoslavian infantry are pretty good are blocking choke points and blowing up bridges. Plus Beograd is 23 hexes away from 11 PzD, the most forward positionned unit from PzG Kleist. The only way for it to take Beograd is if there are no defending unit in its way, no defending unit or stragglers in Beograd, and if the HQ doesn't stay in Beograd (since it can move at most by (5+3)*3 = 24 hexes by the end of turn 3). In other words, these conditions are impossible to meet (and if they were, SS DR or IR GrD could take the city anyways.

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uran21
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Re: Unternehmen 25 on Classic

Unread postby uran21 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:44 pm

Your approach number 2 is new. I can see how 8 PzD can be in striking range but I found it hard to supply without cards. Also if it is accompanied by 16 ID what unit is tasked for capture of Sarajevo? If 14 PzD captures Zagreb on turn 2 it can start rolling south but I found path to be hit or miss due to units jumping out of fog of war and sometimes they can retake Zagreb if it is not garrisoned.