Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Ask, comment, read.
Articwulf
Captain
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:04 pm

Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby Articwulf » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:08 pm

It is often said that UoC1/2 are like a chess game requiring the perfect moves to get all objectives. This has been sited as the primary negative. The Dev response here has been "your not supposed to get all the bonus objectives every time" so its not a chess game, you can win in many ways. The basic problem here being the OCD nature of the average gamer. This makes the Dev response basically illrelevant, sorry devs but its just how human nature is.

I thought a bit about this problem, and i think a solution is that the bonus objectives need to be both:
A. Random Locations & Rewards - I think this actually exists at the reward level, but what I mean is at the location level. Thus many locations CAN have bonus objectives (more sites than currently do), but it is random which sites DO have those rewards AND the reward is random. This prevents restarting over and over and adds a fun randomness to the game that can have effects beyond the scenario.

B. Hidden Locations - If you put it on the map, some OCD person will want to go after it. By being hidden people will get a cool surprise for capturing these locations. This removed the OCD button from people and adds a fun suprise.

These feel like simple (yeah what do I know anyhow), but really effective solutions to the chess problem.

my 2c.

Artic

Dayvit78
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:04 am

Re: Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby Dayvit78 » Tue May 11, 2021 2:47 am

Random locations that you're not expected to take are fine - take if you can, if not, no worries. And I like this game's balance of them more than other similar games.

Hidden locations are just ridiculous. Like in PZG2, there's one in the Gibraltar Spain campaign. There's no reason for you to go over there and get it, no historical reason to do it and no way you would even know it's there (I only found out about it from the forum) - so why did they add it? Just for OCD people?
Things should be in the game if they make it more fun and/or more historical. Not "just because" it's another box and gives more points.

juoc
Major
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby juoc » Tue May 11, 2021 4:29 pm

I wouldn't mind one DLC experimenting with removing turn limits for all objectives. This might make the OCD crowd happier but what I like about it is that it would make the intended strategy less obvious. Now I usually look at turn limits when planning my advance instead of studying the map. On the same note, if supply wasn't an issue historically sometimes give the player an excess of supply hubs so that it is less obvious if you should stick to the railway or take detour on a dirt road. This would make the game more strategically challenging by making it less tactically challenging, a trade I'm all for.

Articwulf
Captain
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby Articwulf » Wed May 12, 2021 12:40 am

Dayvit78 wrote:Random locations that you're not expected to take are fine - take if you can, if not, no worries. And I like this game's balance of them more than other similar games.

Hidden locations are just ridiculous. Like in PZG2, there's one in the Gibraltar Spain campaign. There's no reason for you to go over there and get it, no historical reason to do it and no way you would even know it's there (I only found out about it from the forum) - so why did they add it? Just for OCD people?
Things should be in the game if they make it more fun and/or more historical. Not "just because" it's another box and gives more points.


I'm not sure you have interpreted my suggestion correctly. I am not suggesting random any where all over the map with zero logic. I am suggesting a set of specific locations with tactical value that "may" have a bonus would be random to presence / value. I am also not suggesting that objectives that are always present be hidden.

Dayvit78
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:04 am

Re: Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby Dayvit78 » Mon May 17, 2021 4:45 pm

B. Hidden Locations - If you put it on the map, some OCD person will want to go after it. By being hidden people will get a cool surprise for capturing these locations. This removed the OCD button from people and adds a fun suprise.

Maybe I didn't understand your suggestion but what I read is that the hex is not marked as a bonus location. If so, I disagree. All targets must be marked in the outliner.
We are not the overall supreme leader. We are an officer carrying out orders. You are told to take X, Y, and Z. You don't go out of your way to look for hidden locations as if it's an Easter egg hunt.
If you mean, the target is marked, but the reward is random. Fine. Why not?

But what I would much prefer to see is, we must take Target A (say center of map); then you have the option to take either Target B (north of map) or Target C (south of map), but you can't take both because your forces aren't strong enough - moving north will mean you're not moving south. This gives the player some agency in the target selection. Here is where rewards can be random or differentiated. Maybe you go north because you want a card, or you go south because you want your HQ updated.

Articwulf
Captain
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby Articwulf » Mon May 17, 2021 6:25 pm

Dayvit78 wrote:But what I would much prefer to see is, we must take Target A (say center of map); then you have the option to take either Target B (north of map) or Target C (south of map), but you can't take both because your forces aren't strong enough - moving north will mean you're not moving south. This gives the player some agency in the target selection. Here is where rewards can be random or differentiated. Maybe you go north because you want a card, or you go south because you want your HQ updated.


For visible bonus objectives, i enjoy more the ones significantly impactful to the next scenario. If you had two options, it might affect two different scenarios. But for this to work, meeting both should be flat out impossible and I'm not sure how people would go with that.

Dayvit78
Second Lieutenant
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:04 am

Re: Bonus Rewards and "Chess Game"

Unread postby Dayvit78 » Thu May 20, 2021 6:34 am

I also love the ones that impact the starting positions in the next scenario. I don't remember if other games do this in the same way, but I'm always happy here when I start a new scenario and some units have already captured one of the objectives (due to the previous scenario), but they're in a precarious position (beat up and exposed, maybe out of HQ range). It changes how you would play compared to if you hadn't got the bonus.