[BT] Another Winter Storm

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Danielefc
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[BT] Another Winter Storm

Unread postby Danielefc » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:00 am

To honour the season and imminent anniversary for the turning point of World War 2: Here is a new scenario covering the german attempt to relieve Stalingrad. (well its in the community scenarios tab).

Thought I'd throw it in here as well since I found some interesting things while making it: I Used scans of original "Lage Ost" maps to make this one. Pardon my french but boy were the Germans screwed. Here are just two examples (the maps are HUGE - so these are just snippets). Keep in mind that the Soviet forces shown are only those known/guessed to be present by german intel and recon. Most places things are alot worse than they already look as also described below:

DECEMBER 13th, Front section just east of Stalingrad pocket:

German northern section:
One Regiment of the 294th ID
Remnants if Romanian 14th ID
Most of 22nd Panzer Division & Romanian Armoured Division

These units face an infantry corps and an armoured corps with plenty of more forces inbound

German central section:
610th security regiment
354th Grenadier Regiment
Gruppe 'Oberst Stahel': An ad-hoc luftwaffe battlegroup made up of ground crew/staff (such units were usually about battallion strength with little combat experience or training).
(306th Infantry Division is inbound to (try to) shore up this almost empty sector)

These units face a guards infantry corps and two cavalry corps with plenty more coming

Southern section:
Gruppe ' Gen.ltn. Stumpffeld': another adhoc battlegroup of rear area troops
11th Panzer Division
336th Infantry Division
Small parts of 7th Luftwaffe Field Division
Gruppe 'Oberst Adam': Yet another weak battlegroup
Divisional staff of 384th Infantry Division (Division itself is inside the 'Kessel')

These units face an infnatry corps, a guards cavalry corps and a tank corps

Image

DECEMBER 20th, German attack a week after its launch.

North of the LVII. Panzer Corps' attack the section of front shown in the last map can be seen.
Gruppe 'Adam' has been destroyed and along with this the germans lost the important bridge this unit was holding (marked on map). This bridge was actually missed by me in the game as there is no bridge here in-game. And it would have been nice to have one as I needed to fiddle about with correct unit placement so as to not allow the player to cut off Soviet units too easily. Anyway: This section is now held by 336th Infantry Division, parts of 7th Luftwaffe Field Division, Gruppe 'Stumpffeld' and the divisional staff of the 384th Infantry Division.... All in all what ammounts to little more than a single Division. Now facing this is two tank corps and a guards cavalry corps

Immediately to the south of this one sees the german attack

Most shocking to me, having looked at hundreds of these maps, is the ABSOLUTE lack of support units or reserves (trust me - nothing is hiding further south outside this picture - this is "it")


North to south there is:
17th Panzer Division
6th Panzer Division
23rd Panzer Division
5 Romanian Cavalry Division
1/3'ish if 8th Romanian Cavalry Division

As can be seen there are too many Soviet units facing this force for me to be arsed to write it down ;). But eventually the whole thing boiled down to this: Those four divisions tried to break through large parts of three Soviet armies: 51st, 57th and 28th (all of these with a littany of attached armoured units). Later 5th Shock army (already arriving according to german intel as can be seen on map north of 17th Panzer) and 2nd Guards Army were sent in as re-inforcements just to make sure the attack would falter completely. However this mattered little as the section of front shown in the first map collapsed along with the rest of the front further north. This made any further attacks towards Stalingrad too dangerous and we all know the end result.

Image


Hope ya'll found this interesting... And enjoy the scenario :)
Last edited by Danielefc on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

nikdav
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby nikdav » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:54 pm

Very good job Daniel, i am working on a more big scenario " Don winter 1942 " using the base game, but i add the rumenian cavalry, german luftwaffe and security div.icons from Red Turn and works well.
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nikdav
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby nikdav » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:58 pm

What date is the "LAGE OST " map you use ?

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Danielefc
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby Danielefc » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:19 am

nikdav wrote:Very good job Daniel, i am working on a more big scenario " Don winter 1942 " using the base game, but i add the rumenian cavalry, german luftwaffe and security div.icons from Red Turn and works well.


Cheers :) I was actually planning to make a different version of this for multiplayer that would expand to the north and south. This would include the Caucasus and Kursk Regions. Is yours going to be multiplayer or singleplayer? If multiplayer then ill scrap my plans for this. No need for two similar scenarios :)

Yea - I was thinking of adding the Romanian cavalry units from RT. But given the lack of mobility of m ost of these divisions at the time I went for base game infantry with veteran status instead. German luftwaffe and security would have been good though. Two questions regarding that: Are the code changes simple? Do they require the player who plays the scenario to mod his game?

If not could you give a short description of where/how to change this? perhaps just upload a simple example - I can figure out the rest from there.

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Danielefc
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby Danielefc » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:22 am

nikdav wrote:What date is the "LAGE OST " map you use ?


Primarily december 12th/13th. But I "combined" this with december 18-19-20-21-23-29. To see how things "should" go and which reinforcements should be added

nikdav
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby nikdav » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:35 pm

- My scen is singleplayer (Soviet AI) and run from Voronezh to Elista, in a variant extended to caucasus there is some problem with the Soviet AI, so i limit the front to Elista.

- It is a strange scenario because is a scenario that as Axis Player you lost in any case (Stalingrad OBJ is impossible to reach for the germans )........but my objective is to recreate the real winter 42 battles around Stalingrad and the retreat of the axis forces from the Don river.

- Adding icon is incredibly simple, copy and paste the units png files from folder "unit-rot" and "unit-icon" (RT) to "unit-rot" and "unit-icon" (base game) and mod "unit-icon.xml" (base game) file adding the data of the new units taken from the "unit-icon.xml" file (RT).
Last edited by nikdav on Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

nikdav
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby nikdav » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:02 pm

This is the file for base game with added 4 new units:
-German Security
-SS Cavalry
-Romenian Cavalry
-German Luftwaffe feld division

go to c:programs/unity of command/data/
backup or rename the original unit_types.xml

unzip the file attached and add the new unit_types.xml in the "data" folder

than go to c:programs/unity of command/data/dlc/redturn/data/unit_rot
and copy all the file png related to the 4 new units (60 files for every unit) and
past the file in the unit_rot folder of Base game

than go to c:programs/unity of command/data/dlc/redturn/data/unit_icon
and copy all the file png related to the 4 new units (4 files for every unit) and
past the file in the unit_icon folder of Base game.

---- attention to copy and paste and not move as i did the first time, and so Red Turn without this files crashed---

.........and now you go to the editor - base game scenarios and the new units are ready to combat. ;)
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Sjarlatan
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby Sjarlatan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:27 am

Great scenario! I should start by saying, Danielefc, that I am already a big fan of your scenarios, and from reading your posts and descriptions I can say I'm a fan of how you proceed when you create scenarios. :) Spring Awakening is my favorite community scenario, as I very much enjoyed the tactical and strategical challenge it posed with the limited german forces at hand. In the end I managed a BV-victory in that scenario in 3 turns, though that is another discussion. ;)

Right now I've been awake for around 34 hours, so I'm not up for commenting this scenario as thoroughly as I want to, though I can say a few things:

It took me three tries to get a brilliant victory, though I did capture all objectives by turn 4 on all three tries.

Holding the front line in the north is impossible. Especially as with my logic, sending one of the panzer divisions located here towards the offensive operation in the south is a necessary measure to highten Wintergewitters chance of success. (From the wikipedia-article though, I note that this would be frowned upon by the high command. :roll: ) While shifting my northern troops works as a temporary measure in containing the Soviet attempts at outflanking, it is a matter of time before they break through and threaten the whole southern front. Much like the real wintergewitter I might add. ;) This is why I on the final attempt evacuated the Stalingrad pocket fairly aggressivly, as only with these forces back in action would any sort of real stabilization of the entire front be possible.

Here are the saves of my three tries, if watching the replays would be of any interest:
Wintergewitter-saves-Sjarlatan.rar


I'll try it again another day and see if I can come up with more feedback, but for now:
Thanks for your scenarios so far, and keep up the good work!
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Danielefc
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby Danielefc » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:18 am

nikdav wrote:This is the file for base game with added 4 new units:
-German Security
-SS Cavalry
-Romenian Cavalry
-German Luftwaffe feld division

go to c:programs/unity of command/data/
backup or rename the original unit_types.xml

unzip the file attached and add the new unit_types.xml in the "data" folder

than go to c:programs/unity of command/data/dlc/redturn/data/unit_rot
and copy all the file png related to the 4 new units (60 files for every unit) and
past the file in the unit_rot folder of Base game

than go to c:programs/unity of command/data/dlc/redturn/data/unit_icon
and copy all the file png related to the 4 new units (4 files for every unit) and
past the file in the unit_icon folder of Base game.

---- attention to copy and paste and not move as i did the first time, and so Red Turn without this files crashed---

.........and now you go to the editor - base game scenarios and the new units are ready to combat. ;)


Cheers Nik - big help :) Glad to see its a simple thing. Have been too lazy to check it out for myself :oops:

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Danielefc
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Re: Another Winter Storm

Unread postby Danielefc » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:04 am

Sjarlatan wrote:Great scenario! I should start by saying, Danielefc, that I am already a big fan of your scenarios, and from reading your posts and descriptions I can say I'm a fan of how you proceed when you create scenarios. :) Spring Awakening is my favorite community scenario, as I very much enjoyed the tactical and strategical challenge it posed with the limited german forces at hand. In the end I managed a BV-victory in that scenario in 3 turns, though that is another discussion. ;)

Right now I've been awake for around 34 hours, so I'm not up for commenting this scenario as thoroughly as I want to, though I can say a few things:

It took me three tries to get a brilliant victory, though I did capture all objectives by turn 4 on all three tries.

Holding the front line in the north is impossible. Especially as with my logic, sending one of the panzer divisions located here towards the offensive operation in the south is a necessary measure to highten Wintergewitters chance of success. (From the wikipedia-article though, I note that this would be frowned upon by the high command. :roll: ) While shifting my northern troops works as a temporary measure in containing the Soviet attempts at outflanking, it is a matter of time before they break through and threaten the whole southern front. Much like the real wintergewitter I might add. ;) This is why I on the final attempt evacuated the Stalingrad pocket fairly aggressivly, as only with these forces back in action would any sort of real stabilization of the entire front be possible.

Here are the saves of my three tries, if watching the replays would be of any interest:
Wintergewitter-saves-Sjarlatan.rar


I'll try it again another day and see if I can come up with more feedback, but for now:
Thanks for your scenarios so far, and keep up the good work!


Thanks! Its always nice with feedback - good and bad. But the good kind does warm more :D

Yea - if you move 11th panzer south and add the Tigers to it; and then delay with what is left further north then a turn 4 DV is most likely what will happen. The trick is getting a BV ;). Good job on getting it in try 3. Holding the objectives with the small ammount of forces available while still pressing on towards Stalingrad is the "real" challenge.

All in all this scenario was a bit of a pain to make in the end :lol: The objectives are so close together that trying to make it hard for the player to get all three - without making it impossible - was really a challenge. Then making the AI counterattack on most sectors without overreaching... And at the same time guard the Stalingrad approach... And also guard the pocket - but not attack it unless the player allows units to get completely out of supply...Then figure out how to make the german forces in the pocket out of supply and at the same time strong enough to hold out - but weak enough to not be able to break out on their own.... etc etc...

Anyway - I'm glad to hear that it turned out enjoyable. There is really no way of knowing this until others try it.

Spring Awakening has a special place for me as well - was the first scenario I ever made. As with Wintergewitter it is ofcourse a-historical in the sense that some "liberties" have to be taken with the strength and experience of the forces involved to make it possible to win at all. But at the same time there has to be a feeling of realism. Accurate orders of battle and historical unit placement keeps that realistic feeling in the scenarios - imo atleast. Its easier to make the scenarios that follow history, as these have a way of working themselves out almost(!) automatically.


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