[RT] Winter Storm

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Ritalingamer
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[RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby Ritalingamer » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:04 pm

Here is my humble start at creating a scenario for the December '42 operation to relieve Stalingrad.

The balancing isn't where I want it yet, so please give me feedback on the following issues:
1) The scenario should be a struggle for the Germans (after all, they did fail to relieve the pocket), but not impossible. Currently it's almost a walk.

2) Is the scenario too long? Should I cut back the number of turns?

3) Historically, there was a Soviet attack west of the river that the Germans only threw back with the arrival of a new Panzer Division. However, I can't get the Soviets to make more than a few minor counter attacks that don't do anything to upset the balance in the critical theater east of the river.
Should I a) Add an Axis objective on the west side of the Don
b) Just exclude the north/west side of the Don from the scenario
or c) Implement some AI hints to make the Soviets attack more aggressively west of the Don?

4) Currently I give the Axis player 3 aerial supply points per turn, giving them enough capacity to keep nearly half of the units in the Kessel supplied. I like the way the 6th Army gets crunched up as they run out of supply, but what do you think? Is it a fun dynamic?

5) I can't get the Soviets to attack the two Axis objectives within the Kessel - is there a way I can make them do that better? Am I wrong to give the Axis control of those two points at the start? I wanted to simulate Hitler's foolish refusal to abandon Stalingrad, but I don't think it's working out that way in terms of gameplay.

6) I'm not sure how to use the weather engine, so any input on that to make it appopriately miserable for our little grenadiers would be appreciated.

My priority is fun over historical realism, but if you have any corrections to my OOB or unit dispositions, I'm happy to hear your suggestions.

Thanks!
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Last edited by Ritalingamer on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:13 am

Ritalingamer wrote:6) I'm not sure how to use the weather engine


There are no weather engine options in the scenario editor.

The weather is tied to the entire map, not to the individual scenarios. You could perhaps mod it (if you have the stomach for it ;)) but then the mod would change the weather for all scenarios, not just yours.

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spillblood
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby spillblood » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:37 am

Cool scenario! The only problem is that those objective markers are pretty cluttered and unreadable when you display the objectives. But I'm not sure if this can be improved somehow. I'm going to try the scenario out in Multiplayer when possible, and give some feedback on that as well. One question to the developers: Does the AI regard those friendly objective markers in the scenario, or do they only work in PvP (IE, does the AI actively attack those points, didn't see anything like that in my playthough)? They could be omitted if they don't work, and you could make a dedicated PvP scenario of this as well.

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Danielefc
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby Danielefc » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:11 pm

Very nice scenario.

Some ideas:

-Maybe have the Germans inside the kessel on only "one turn out of supply". As it is now they get picked of a bit too quickly.

-Maybe Weaken some of the German units "to the rescue". This would work well both historically and "fun wise" since their current state is a bit over powered IMO.

-Play around with some AI hints to make it behave as you wish :)

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:43 pm

Hey Matt,

I just took a look at this. The setup is there, it could make for a classic scenario (as you may know, I've had this battle on my wishlist for some time, just never had the time to do it properly). I have two questions:

1) any special reason to make it a RT scenario as opposed to SC? The balancing of units is different, though I admit with the unit types actually involved, the difference is not all that big.

2) why not include operation "Little Saturn" in some way as well? I've always thought of these two battles as connected. Wintergewitter counterattack did not happen in a vacuum - Manstein had to contend with Little Saturn at the same time.

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spillblood
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby spillblood » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:26 pm

Tomislav Uzelac wrote:Hey Matt,
as you may know, I've had this battle on my wishlist for some time, just never had the time to do it properly

Would be extremely cool if you could do an own version of this scenario, Tomislav!
Last edited by spillblood on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ritalingamer
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby Ritalingamer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:47 pm

Tomislav Uzelac wrote:Hey Matt,
1) any special reason to make it a RT scenario as opposed to SC? The balancing of units is different, though I admit with the unit types actually involved, the difference is not all that big.

2) why not include operation "Little Saturn" in some way as well? I've always thought of these two battles as connected. Wintergewitter counterattack did not happen in a vacuum - Manstein had to contend with Little Saturn at the same time.


Tomislav - I'm glad you liked the idea. I too have had it on my "wishlist" since I started playing UoC last year.

1) I made it a Red Turn scenario for three reasons -
a) The Axis OOB included Luftwaffe divisions, which weren't available in the base game. I suppose they could also be simulated by green Heer divisions - would their performance be about equivalent to a regular Luftwaffe division?
b) I wanted to limit the number of bridging units available - it turned out to not really be necessary (there's only so many places to bridge after all), but I wanted to try out that feature.
c) In the original version, I gave the Axis a limited number of airstrikes (as they historically had some air support, of limited effectiveness), but I've put that feature on hold until I've better balanced the scenario.

2) I didn't think to include "Little Saturn," because I didn't realize how interlinked they were. Also, I'm new at this and didn't want to bite off too much all at once. Finally, I think the limited Soviet counterattack north of the Don provides a similar sort of pressure - the Axis player has to feed units and reinforcements (especially the 11th PzD) north of the Don to keep the Soviets from striking into his rear.

V .2 Changelog
- Changed all units in the kessel, except for motorized/armored divisions, from 1 turn out of supply to "in supply," so the countdown to being completely out of supply is one turn slower.
- Weakened the Axis armored units in ArmeeGroup Hoth - now five steps instead of six and veterans instead of elite.
- Infantry units north of the Don start entrenched.
- Axis player now has armored and infantry steps in the force pool starting on turn 2.
- Deleted 297th ID and one Soviet Corps, moved up 64th Army 1st Corps.
- Added an objective where the 297th ID used to be. This will symbolize a more complete "road" into the kessel.
- Added a Romanian division to signify more of the Romanian 7th Corps.
- Removed the objectives in Stalingrad proper, as the AI has been ignoring these.
- Added time limits to objectives.
- Reduced turn count to six, changed decisive victory to five turns.
- Edited Stalingrad "active area" AI hint to allow the Soviet AI to cross rivers to get there.

I've playtested it and it's more challenging, but still doable.

Please provide feedback and let me know how many turns it took you to win (or not).
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spillblood
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Re: [RT] Winter Storm

Unread postby spillblood » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Cool, I'll try this out.


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