Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Let's keep only one thread active per scenario. What do you think about a particular scenario. Was it too easy, too hard? Did you win or lose at first? Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.
greenhippo
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Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby greenhippo » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:10 am

Has anyone gotten a BV on either Army Group Center or Army Group South. At this stage, i'm only capable of a decisive victory for both. On Army Group Center, the requirement of taking the two 'turn 4' objectives simultaneously is very difficult because as you near them in turn 3, the AI simply throws infantry and mobile units in front of you, and with the terrain, you are forced to take them on in a narrow corridor. For Army Group South, if the AI commits to the center, it takes time to clear them and hence enable supply, if they commit to the rear, they power of influence points forces you to grind. If anyone has a brilliant victory for either, i would appreciate a save file?

Wolfenshtein
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby Wolfenshtein » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:23 pm

I've managed to get BV in both of these scenarios. It was hard. I've lost over 6 hours. In AG South strike by all 4 panzers at the north, but you need to secure railroad to Lutsk by turn 2. Then advance to the target. At the center it is possible to push back soviet tank division on the hex just near the city-target. One of your inf division could go to this hex and should be used to attack garrison at 2nd turn, then retreat from this hex. At the south use inf division with engineers step to destroy soviet inf and cross the river. Build the bridge and strike via 3 German inf and Romania panzer towards objective. Engineers should be used to crack garrison.

AG Center's BV is pretty hard. The main tactic is to strike by all your panzers towards 4 turn objectives. Don't use panzers to attack on the 1st turn, they must go as far as possible. At the south your panzers and cav must be near Baranovichi at the end of 2nd turn. Then 2-3 panzer must capture objective and other 2-3 advance close to 4 turn objective. Grossdeutchland and Lehr should be used to secure supply lines by turn 3.

My English isn't perfect, so be ready to have problem with my explanation.

dmcheng
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby dmcheng » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:31 am

I can't get a BV in Army Group South either. I cannot capture Lodz with infantry and motorised division only, I have to use a tank division, but then I can't capture Zhitomir in time. I also have a lot of trouble capturing Mogilev in time, even when adding specialist steps.

@Wolfenshtein - it would be nice to see your saved game to know how to capture Lodz with infantry only.

scragham
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby scragham » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:05 am

big steaming pile of lucky RNG crap - BV in AGC.

and these scenarios are rated easy? holy crap.
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Wolfenshtein
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby Wolfenshtein » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:51 am

Enjoy:
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greenhippo
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby greenhippo » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:32 am

Thanks for the replay's! I was finally able to get a BV on Army Group South. I did use Prestige points for an engineering upgrade, and i was fortunate the infantry sitting on the final objective retreated. Don't think i could repeat it again without several tries. Basically, commit your infantry clearing a path for your panzers, then rush your mobile units forward, your panzer will probably run out of supply every other turn for one turn, but the infantry should be able to restore supply intermittently. Now to try Center...

ComradeP
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby ComradeP » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:01 pm

I'm not entirely sure, but the difficulty ratings might be based more on the overall feel of the scenario.

Generally speaking, a BV is always medium-hard regardless of the difficulty level in the description.

luczed
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby luczed » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:52 pm

I think you have to admit that some BV are only achieved thanks to lucky RNG rather than applying a particular well-thought strategy.
For example in Army Group South, you have to send all your panzers north, in fact it's pretty clear you need to have 4 to break through their line, and by 5 hexes from the objective otherwise they can't move in and capture. The first one breaks the line the second pushes through, the third attacks the objective hex and the last one captures. By doing this you're only way of winning the other second turn BV objective is hoping that your infantry gets lucky RNG on the soviet thanks, in fact most of the time you only can attack with 2 divisions and it's also pretty crowded in that area.

Grenator
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby Grenator » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:53 am

I've finally cracked AG South.

I quickly figured out that all 4 German tank divisions should go to Rovno right away, and that you need to have a unit next to the Lvov square to cap it on turn 2.

My problem was taking Mogilev-Podolsky on turn 5 (got it on turn 6 at best), and I've finally figured out how to do it.

One, don't expect to take this objective with the troops you send against Tarnopol. You must use the German/Romanian troops you've got in the south.

Two, it's possible to take the objective on turn 3. Use the Engineer infantry, Air Support, Romanian tanks to push back the Soviet infantry away from the bridge in the east (the guy that directly in front of it, and the NKVD guy) and establish a bridgehead. On turn 2, flood all you've got into the resulting hole, especially the German troops. The Engineer infantry can be placed in front of the bridge next to Mogilev-Podolsky — so that on turn 3 you can attack the TD that is holed up there with 0:2, and 50% retreat chance. If it retreats, the obj is yours on turn 3.

Another tip is that you should make sure that your Panzer Divisions are supplied until the last rush towards Zhitomir — if at any point the enemy cuts you off, you may just as well reload the map.

EDIT: I've managed to crack AG Centre, too. The strategy is essentially as Wolfenshtein has outlined. Don't tie up your southern Panzers on turn 1. Use Air support/infantry to get across the river and kill the garrison of Brest-Litovsk -- it needs luck, but is perfectly doable. Take Brest-Litovsk on turn 1, and just flood your tanks towards Baranovichi — if you can attack units next to Baranovichi at the end of turn 2, you're doing it right.

Up north, you can use some of the mobile forces to help out in Bialystok, but make sure you immediately send tanks through Vilnius towards Minsk: even two Panzer divisions can be of huge help in killing enemy units around turn 4 objectives.

hnoor0044
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Re: Black Turn: BV in Army Group Center and South?

Unread postby hnoor0044 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:44 pm

At the center it is possible to push back soviet tank division on the hex just near the city-target. One of your inf division could go to this hex and should be used to attack garrison at 2nd turn, then retreat from this hex.


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