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PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:00 pm
by Arctic-Nation
Just had a good romp with spillblood on this scenario. Unfortunately, it plays out a little too easily for the Germans, who were given enough forces to smash through the defending Soviets like an iron brick through an inconveniently located window. Scored 125/200, though could've gone for some extra points if rain hadn't come into play.

Still, if you're looking to test how well you can defend when playing Ivan, this might be your best bet. Just don't be surprised when all your forces are wiped out.

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:41 pm
by spillblood
Game code was: 89XUhO
It played out in a similar fashion when I first tried it out in PvP last year.
I wonder what's the right tactic for the Soviet side in this scenario. It would be a bit more realistic if the Soviets would receive some tank units as reinforcements. The German side just is so strong that it's pretty hard to stop it (because attacks against those tank units with lots of specialist steps are pretty futile).
Here's screenshots of the outcomes of the first three turns.
2013-10-07 02-12-45_Greenshot.jpg

2013-10-07 02-14-02_Greenshot.jpg

2013-10-07 02-15-01_Greenshot.jpg

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:21 am
by spillblood
As you can see I've been completely wiped off the board (the game continues until the turn limit is reached, and I didn't want to surrender).
2013-10-07 02-15-40_Greenshot.jpg

2013-10-07 02-16-13_Greenshot.jpg

2013-10-07 02-16-36_Greenshot.jpg

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:33 am
by Tomislav Uzelac
Thanks for the report guys!

PvP is clearly not getting as much love as it should.

Mind you, nothing stops you from making balance changes in the scenario editor and trying again. ;)

If there's interest in the community, we will work with you to release updated versions of PvP scenarios and help get the most out of PvP experience. I always figured there's no point in doing it otherwise, as it's too time-consuming to test PvP by ourselves.

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:21 pm
by spillblood
ArcticNation and me have already decided to test out some more PvP scenarios in the next days/weeks (he wants to get familiar with it because he hasn't played PvP before, whereas I had a lot of games with one of my younger brothers, but we didn't always use PvP maps (actually we found that many of the SP maps work better in MP than the PvP maps themselves). We should try switching sides in each scenario to see how it plays out. After getting some experience in the RT PvP maps we want to playtest the new PvP map some more.
I think maybe I've lost in Kursk/Zitadelle because I've moved my units on the riverlines out of their entrenched positions, but they are so far away from the attacking tank units in the south and north that I think they'd also make no difference because they're less mobile than the German tank armies.

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:52 pm
by Arctic-Nation
Don't think it matters much, actually. The Soviet player might be able to shove some infantry under the threads of the Axis panzers, but there just isn't enough manpower to defend Kursk to the end. A good Axis player might even let Kursk be and attack eastwards directly, away from the defensive lines. Even if he can't push through, it will unhinge the Soviet defence enough to make a Soviet victory impossible.

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:09 pm
by spillblood
Tomislav Uzelac wrote:If there's interest in the community, we will work with you to release updated versions of PvP scenarios and help get the most out of PvP experience.

Actually this is a good idea. I don't have experience with the scenario editor, but since you can open all scenarios, maybe it's possible to improve them a bit.
If some of the Community scenario designers would turn their (awesome) scenarios into PvP scenarios, especially pretty balanced ones like Solstice or Spring Awakening it'd be just as good as revamping those PvP scenarios.

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:29 pm
by Tomislav Uzelac
It's actually trivial to convert a SP scenario to multiplayer.

Load up the scenario in the scenario editor and go to View > Scenario Properties. In there:

1. Click on "Multi Player" to make the scenario multiplayer (duh!)

2. Set "Margin" to about half the value of all objectives on the map.

Voila! You have an initial version of your multiplayer scenario (you should probably also rename it). You can now do a couple of sessions to establish what is a fair value of "margin", i.e. what should constitute a victory for each side.

Intervening into the designer's choices regarding how the scenario is set up is a more tricky issue. You could do your own research, in effect becoming the designer yourself (just remember to credit the original guy, ok?). You can also contact the original designer and work with them, it's up to you.

Re: PvP: Zitadelle

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:36 pm
by spillblood
Anyone won in this scenario as the Soviets? Just had another go and again wasn't able to stop the Germans as the Soviet player. It's impossible to do damage to the German tanks without losing more steps in the process. The Soviets really should get some reinforcements in this scenario. Konrad is actually the same, no way of stopping the Germans as the Soviet side (and I've tried this some times as well, on both sides):