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Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:02 pm
by Stahlgewitter
OK, I admit it, this scenario is crushing my balls.

I can't stop the Nashorn-equipped SS Panzer from occupying Zhitomir. Once in there, nothing I can do - regardless of casualties - seems to be able to winkle them out. In fact, the best I've managed to get was two steps suppressed - with the city in ruins - and this was at the cost of suiciding virtually my entire tank army in frontal assaults.

Cutting them off won't work as you only have until T3 to capture, and I can't get artillery remotely near the city by then either - like that would help.

And Korsun itself isn't a picnic either. I hope the next DLC puts the focus back on Germany, quality over quantity every time :)

Any hints?

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:19 pm
by MeinPoopenshaft
I'm still working on this myself but I've got a breakout that looks something like this on the first turn.

I think the Soviet missions are more fun. Your units aren't as strong which forces you to be more creative as a commander. Quantity is a quality of its own.

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:06 pm
by spillblood
MeinPoopenshaft wrote:Your units aren't as strong which forces you to be more creative as a commander.

Yeah, and I guess that somehow depicts the historical reality. The Soviets were inferior in equipment and tactics, but superior in strategy, especially when the tide of the war had turned after Stalingrad. The superiority in tactics was caused by great independence of the individual platoon/squad leaders (which was a bit paradoxical when you consider that they fought for a fascist, dictatorial regime, but was based upon developments in the German military that dated back to
WW I). I guess those German units are at some times even depicted as too strong, especially in the later scenarios of Red Turn. Additionally the Germans were hampered by insane decisions, mostly by Hitler himself, who always forced his forces to stay and fight when they got encircled, which each time resulted in disastrous losses. He didn't trust his generals, although they had far better military knowledge than him. But on the Soviet side it was similar. They had the advantage in material and manpower though because Germany didn't switch to full war economy until 1943 (and the Russians had huge ressources).

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:46 pm
by Stahlgewitter
The breakout m'learned friend Mein Poopenshaft has posted above there is about as well as I can do, too - and that's with some luck. But no matter how you cut it, there seems to be no way you can either get anything INTO Zhitomir or block off that monster SS unit to the south in order to prevent it entering in Axis T1. So unless I've missed something you can expect to spend T2-3 using your tank corps in frontal assaults on Zhitomir.

Feels like Zapp Brannigan - 'on my command, we shall file directly into the alien death cannons, clogging them with wreckage'.

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:51 pm
by pb83
i'm kind of stuck in this scenario myself but you can better your chances by reorganizing your specialist steps. try adding the t-34s to the regular TCs. it will help a bit.

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:22 pm
by ComradeP
It is really difficult and might require a lot of luck to get a BV, if it's even possible at all currently for some kinds of AI behaviour. We're still trying to find a good way to keep the battle historical, but to prevent the AI from moving its mobile units into cities. I guess I could just move one of the infantry divisions east of Zhitomir into the city, but I'd prefer a more elegant solution.

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:05 pm
by Stahlgewitter
I finally managed to take Zhitomir on turn 3 after appalling carnage only for one of the German tank divs in the north to attack and displace my inf garrison in Korosten :evil: :mrgreen:

I played on regardless but by the end of T5 none of the lads were within 2 hexes of Korsun and all were heavily attenuated. Roll again...

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:01 pm
by Stahlgewitter
Just won a DV at long last without spending any prestige. :)

The scenario becomes much easier if you just accept you're not getting into Zhitomir until turn 5 and pass up any prestige from its capture. (Though it wouldn't have been a BV in this case even if I had taken Zhitomir on time, as I was a turn late into Korsun regardless.)

It could have been easier still if I had just played to the DV turn limit and ignored the individual objectives - for example, if you don't care about taking / holding Kirovograd on T1 those mobile forces are free to drive a wedge between the German forces in the extreme southeast and the Korsun supply source.

I don't consider a scenario to be beaten until a BV is won and will have to return to this later :twisted:

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:04 pm
by deducter
Hi, new poster here, I didn't find this scenario to be very challenging. I got a BV on my second try (the first try I didn't realize I had to take Zhitomir by turn 3). I don't think much, if any luck is required at all. The key is to cut the supply lines as soon as possible, which makes taking the other objectives easy after taking Zhitomir. It will cost you to assault Zhitomir, it can be done given the large numbers of MC and TC in the area, and you will have little difficulty taking the other objectives in time after that. You hardly need any of them to take the other objectives.

I have uploaded a video about this.

Re: Red Turn: Rovno - Korsun

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:06 pm
by Kylind
I finally managed a brilliant victory on Turn 7 in this scenario.
I've replayed this scenario more than any other until now and it was really challenging.

deducter above shows the basic tactic, but he also got lucky in the south. He left the tank unit in Kirovogard open from the north and the south. Almost every time I did that, the enemy would concentrate all his tanks on that unit and expel it again. I had to block at least the access from the south, but this left my lines too thin and the enemy tanks would break through and occupy my supply.

Zhitomir is of course also pretty hard. If the unit is dug in, you can pretty much forget it. If not, then use your (hopefully still full-strength) veterans of Mechanized and Katyusha tanks to suppress the first steps. After that you can take the city. (Put a full strength unit into it.)

The rest of the mission is pretty easy, but getting everything to go right in the first 3 turns is really rare.