Don't really like it so far

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whatever
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Don't really like it so far

Unread postby whatever » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:36 am

I really don't see what all the hub-bub is about.

The game seems a bit silly in a lot of places. Air attacks are surprisingly rarely effective. I strongly, strongly suspect that the designers didn't intend for air attacks to be more effective in rain than in clear weather, but it's hard to tell their intentions. Is this a bug?
And what is the deal with the Russians in the first scenario? One of their infantry divisions destroyed a panzer division all by itself. The predicted casualties displayed almost always are way off base when the attacks actually happen, and always in the Russians favor. Yet the Russians can easily demolish German divisions at will.

Very strange game.

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spillblood
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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby spillblood » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:33 pm

You have to check the terrain a bit more. Attacks over rivers are always less effective. Use the terrain view button in the UI to check riverlines if your monitor res is too high. It's pretty important. And check the forums for some more hints. About the air attacks: You're right, they don't play a big role, you should mostly use them to suppress enemy units before you attack.
About the destruction of a Panzer division by infantry: This is only possible when it's been suppressed by another unit before, and even a suppressed Panzer Division can still fight back. Play a little more and don't give up after such a short impression. It doesn't seem complicated, but there's actually a lot more depth to the game than you might think at first glance, and it takes some practice to master the scenarios. Actually, Stalingrad Campaign (the main game), starts with one of the hardest maps that took me a lot of tries to get it right the first time i played (Sevastopol, the introductory scenario that you can access through the scenario menu, is a lot easier).
Last edited by spillblood on Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HolyDeath
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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby HolyDeath » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:00 pm

The game seems a bit silly in a lot of places. Air attacks are surprisingly rarely effective. I strongly, strongly suspect that the designers didn't intend for air attacks to be more effective in rain than in clear weather, but it's hard to tell their intentions. Is this a bug?

In clear weather your aircraft support is more likely to hit target, but it doesn't mean it'll hit it for sure. Certain conditions (city, bad weather, unit digged in, etc.) will make your "combat roll" even worse, but that still doesn't mean your air strike won't succeed.

And what is the deal with the Russians in the first scenario? One of their infantry divisions destroyed a panzer division all by itself. The predicted casualties displayed almost always are way off base when the attacks actually happen, and always in the Russians favor. Yet the Russians can easily demolish German divisions at will.

Predicted casualties are exactly this: predicted. Game doesn't use "hard numbers", it also includes some RNG (Random Number Generator) that's making calculations go off - sometimes you'll do better than expected, sometimes your attack will end with unexpected, terrible losses. This is done to recreate a bit of uncertainity of combat while still retaining planning aspect of the game. You simply can't count for everything to go your way, "because I have my calculations right here!". When I am playing against myself I often find - especially in basic game - that Soviet units have terrible odds against German units most of the time.

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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby spillblood » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:07 am

This is done to recreate a bit of uncertainity of combat while still retaining planning aspect of the game. You simply can't count for everything to go your way, "because I have my calculations right here!".

And this is, along with the non-scripted AI and the weather than can be different in each playthrough one of the factors why each scenario can play out differently each time you try it, which increases replayability (although the main scenario designer on RT and the new DLC, ComradeP, doesn't seem to like the randomness factor). For me personally it's not really important to get a BV in each scenario, I also like to just see how a scenario can play out in different playthroughs.

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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby Vaktathi » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:52 pm

whatever wrote:I really don't see what all the hub-bub is about.

The game seems a bit silly in a lot of places. Air attacks are surprisingly rarely effective. I strongly, strongly suspect that the designers didn't intend for air attacks to be more effective in rain than in clear weather, but it's hard to tell their intentions. Is this a bug?
Check the terrain you're using your air attacks on, units in cities/forests/etc are much more resistant. That said, there's also a very large random factor there, so it's entirely possible (though very unlikely) that one turn you could whiff 3 air attacks on a unit in the open and hit the next with every one on a unit in a forest in the rain. That said, air attacks are there to tip the balance and soften up a target, not destroy a target by itself.

And what is the deal with the Russians in the first scenario? One of their infantry divisions destroyed a panzer division all by itself.
Then something went drastically wrong and that attack should not have been ordered. I've been playing this game since 2012 and cannot think of a single example of this happening without the Panzer division being drastically understrength (i.e. only 1 or 2 pips active and the rest suppressed or destroyed and no specialist step). A soviet infantry division is not capable of such a feat of arms against a strong, supplied panzer division, not even the random number generator can flip it that far.

The predicted casualties displayed almost always are way off base when the attacks actually happen, and always in the Russians favor. Yet the Russians can easily demolish German divisions at will.
O_o

German divisions all have major power bonuses over their soviet equivalents. Yes, sometimes it doesn't always work out, there's that random factor, but it works as often in your favor as against you. You typically need several Soviet units to engage a single German unit and ensure its destruction.

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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby whatever » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:21 pm

You all must be playing a completely different game than I am.
First of all, I've had 5 air attacks in a row fail to even suppress one step.
Second, in attacks that are estimated at 0/1, I understand that it will vary. What I expect is that it will vary equally on both sides of the equation. Instead, I am attacking and often getting 3 KIA's on my unit with minimal losses on the defender, but the reverse rarely, if ever happens. If the odds are more likely to be 3/1, than the prediction should say that.
Third, in the 2nd Kharkov scenario, the Russian infantry divisions are much stronger than the German infantry divisions. It is suicide for my Infantry divisions to attack, while the Russians often inflict 2-1 causalities on me when they attack.
Finally, the Panzer division was in supply and had three steps unsuppressed. I would never have even considered attacking if the roles were reversed, as the predicted casualties for me would have been 4/0.

I'm giving it another go. But like I said, so far less than impressed.

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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby spillblood » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:58 pm

Did you maintain your supply lines? If your units are out of supply the attack strenth is diminished. You have to immediately destroy all Soviet units that get onto your supply lines (the rail lines on the map). Check the supply view each turn, and try to advance along rail lines.

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HolyDeath
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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby HolyDeath » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:27 pm

First of all, I've had 5 air attacks in a row fail to even suppress one step.

It's entirely possible. See Air Attacks section (page 34) to check out possible defender losses during an air strike. I had 2 air attacks fail to do damage, the last air attack did its job. In different game I could have had the very first attack succeed, completely changing situation in that specific part of the map. Weather and RNG influencing combat outcome make each play quite unique.

Second, in attacks that are estimated at 0/1, I understand that it will vary. What I expect is that it will vary equally on both sides of the equation. Instead, I am attacking and often getting 3 KIA's on my unit with minimal losses on the defender, but the reverse rarely, if ever happens. If the odds are more likely to be 3/1, than the prediction should say that.

Check out the manual for "combat results table" in Combat Losses section (page 22-23).

Third, in the 2nd Kharkov scenario, the Russian infantry divisions are much stronger than the German infantry divisions. It is suicide for my Infantry divisions to attack, while the Russians often inflict 2-1 causalities on me when they attack.

I had situations where my units has been badly mauled during their attack, but I also had situations where other units (like Romanian and Hungarian ones) should've been heavily damaged and did very good considering their quality. I also maanged to causing heavy casualties on the enemy without always suiciding my German infantry divisions. See this replay for example of my play. Russian infantry divisions aren't stronger, check out their stats. They have at least 1 attack point less when compared to usual German infantry division and without air or tank support it's very unlikely for them to create a breakthrough against an equally strong units. Without specialists that is. Maybe you were combating strong Soviet infantry unit supported by tank specialists? These can be tough.

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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby spillblood » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:56 pm

We can give you some more tips if you upload a savegame here in this thread. If you're playing a single scenario, go to this folder (just copy and paste into the Windows explorer):
%appdata%\Unity of Command\save\
If you're playing a campaign, go here:
%appdata%\Unity of Command\save\campaign\
And just post the .usc file here (when you've finished the scenario). Screenshots would probably help as well as well, but this way we can view your game and give you tips.

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Re: Don't really like it so far

Unread postby Mandrake48 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:16 am

whatever wrote:You all must be playing a completely different game than I am.
First of all, I've had 5 air attacks in a row fail to even suppress one step.
Second, in attacks that are estimated at 0/1, I understand that it will vary. What I expect is that it will vary equally on both sides of the equation. Instead, I am attacking and often getting 3 KIA's on my unit with minimal losses on the defender, but the reverse rarely, if ever happens. If the odds are more likely to be 3/1, than the prediction should say that.
Third, in the 2nd Kharkov scenario, the Russian infantry divisions are much stronger than the German infantry divisions. It is suicide for my Infantry divisions to attack, while the Russians often inflict 2-1 causalities on me when they attack.
Finally, the Panzer division was in supply and had three steps unsuppressed. I would never have even considered attacking if the roles were reversed, as the predicted casualties for me would have been 4/0.

I'm giving it another go. But like I said, so far less than impressed.

Air power is actually extremely powerful - you only really notice this when your leading panzer division suffers three KIAs and your entire strategy is thrown into utter turmoil!

Keep playing. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but your experience is not representative of the game. Russian infantry is weaker than German; panzers decimate infantry, especially on open terrain; air attacks are absolutely crucial; predicted casualties are largely accurate. Bear in mind that specialist attachments can make a huge difference. That will always be represented in the predicted outcome when you are attacking.


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