Crimea

Let's keep only one thread active per scenario. What do you think about a particular scenario. Was it too easy, too hard? Did you win or lose at first? Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.
willgamer
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Crimea

Unread postby willgamer » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:56 pm

1. How is it even remotely possible to take Kerch in 2 turns?
a. Has anyone actually achieved this in the released version of the game?

2. There appears to be no difficulty levels, right?

3. There appears to be no zoom, right? (tough with a 1920x1200 screen)...

4. After applying reinforcements to any of the inf. units that are experience 0/10, they don't drop down a level. Is this WAD?

5. That ZOCs are nullified by moving the front line seems like a great new idea, but could you provide more explaining and examples?

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Crimea Questions

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:46 pm

1. How is it even remotely possible to take Kerch in 2 turns?
a. Has anyone actually achieved this in the released version of the game?


Yes and yes :-)

There is an extensive thread on this in the private forum, maybe we should copy some of the tips from there. Pelin?

2. There appears to be no difficulty levels, right?


Correct. Some of the scenarios are rated as easy/medium/hard on a purely subjective level. If you're new to the game, it makes sense to play the easier scenarios first.

3. There appears to be no zoom, right? (tough with a 1920x1200 screen)...


Correct again. It's a limitation of the graphics engine. :?

4. After applying reinforcements to any of the inf. units that are experience 0/10, they don't drop down a level. Is this WAD?


Yes. Reinforcements are treated as "standard +0/10" so they don't drop unit experience below that level.

Also, before you ask, green units can not be reorganized, so this mechanic cannot be abused to "promote" green steps to standard.

5. That ZOCs are nullified by moving the front line seems like a great new idea, but could you provide more explaining and examples?


Glad you like it! It is perhaps a bit of an innovation, but not entirely new (nod to SSG)... it's all explained well in the manual I think - did you look both in the "getting Started" and "Game Rules" section?

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2xPelin
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Re: Crimea

Unread postby 2xPelin » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:31 pm

To quote some testers regarding Crimea:

Davin Valkri wrote:...I'm inclined to agree that a turn two capture seems more luck based than strategy based. Heck, in order to affect the initial breakthrough, one would have to:

1) weaken two Soviet infantry units so that they can be easily overrun
2a) weaken the other two so that the ZoC rules don't stop the breakthrough, or
2b) shuffle infantry units into the ZoC gaps, when most of them have spent their move and attack points weakening the Soviet infantry
3) actually score the overruns when your panzer division moves out (I've missed it on 90% odds before)
4) push through far enough that the 4 infantry units in the back can't create another two-thick wall in front of the cap-point, because it's likely most of your infantry didn't make it through

I know the 4 air supports are supposed to help, but because of how they're handled, one or two missed dice rolls may force one to start save-reloading in order to maximize the effect.


"ComradeP wrote:As long as you don't try to destroy every Soviet unit you have a chance to get to Kerch on turn 2, but it can still be a close call depending on the shape of the remaining Soviet forces.

I agree that a substantial amount of the chance for a brilliant victory depends on reasonably good air strike rolls.

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Spooner
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Re: Crimea

Unread postby Spooner » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:57 pm

Remember that you don't need to worry about the other target until turn 3/4, so you can push really hard in the East and use all your planes there.

Bear in mind that difficulty is in regard to how hard/complex it is to play, not how hard it is to get a brilliant victory (most of which rely on perfect tactics as well as a bit of good luck from dice rolls and weather). You should always be able to always get a decisive victory, however, if you are playing well. If you want an easy game, just aim for a simple victory; if you want a medium game, then aim for decisive victory and for a hard game aim for a brilliant victory.

EDIT: Just proved it to myself by getting a brilliant victory again, but it took 2 goes to achieve that, even though I'm quite good at the game (but definitely not the best at it).

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Re: Crimea

Unread postby ComradeP » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:00 am

The main thing that took me a while to figure out is that you don't actually need to destroy all of the Soviets units between your units and Kerch in 2 turns. After all, you just need to get to Kerch. The key is to just destroy the units in one of the two hexrows you can take to get there at the start and move the infantry through, which will in turn allow your armour to move through (normally, the Panzer division wouldn't be able to move more than 1 hex due to the enemy ZOC, but in this case it can move through hexes held by friendly infantry if you have moved them first). You do need reasonable air strike rolls, though. I've had the Soviets kick me out of Kerch a few times after the Panzer division had a lot of suppressed steps from overruns. Taking Sevastopol's simply a matter of aiming all your air strikes at it for a turn (maybe 2) and attacking it over and over.

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Re: Crimea

Unread postby Antares » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:54 am

I did manage to get a brilliant victory -thanks to the German armor getting some overruns. Basically, you need to cut a corridor through the Soviet units in the east, otherwise if you attempt to annihilate everything in your path it will take too long. Plus, as already mentioned, you need some luck with the air strikes to soften up some of the tougher units (not that there are any seriously strong Soviet units in this scenario).

In fact, of the two objectives, the eastern one is far trickier -the western fort can be pounded into submission fairly easily.

Overall, I think the game might benefit from a more extended tutorial, I find the jump in difficulty from the Crimea scenario to the first Campaign battle too steep, but maybe this is because I'm still learning the game (quite aggressive AI, btw, good to see but punishing for newcomers). All this, however, should go as a suggestion for another part of the forum.

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Crimea

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:20 am

Hi Antares,

nice to see a new member join :)

Antares wrote:the western fort can be pounded into submission fairly easily.


Unfortunately due to scale of units and map, UoC cannot simulate the actual battle for Sevastopol: heavy bombardment, storming of the forts etc.

I opted to make this easy then, because it is the introductory scenario. The harder problem in the east is a remnant of the earlier design, where Crimea was supposed to be a regular scenario like any other.

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Re: Crimea

Unread postby Antares » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:35 am

Hi Tomislav,

I've been trying to recreate my earlier success on the eastern shores of the Crimean peninsula, but my bombardments are proving ineffective and my trusty armor is not that trusty (hitting the Soviets with 90% chances for an overrun and getting plain kills instead).

I like the fact that success is not guaranteed by any means (I dread to think what havoc weather will play in winter) and even the introductory scenario can be challenging (at least in terms of getting a brilliant victory).

However, I think the game would benefit (in terms of its appeal to newcomers and non-grognards) if some of its aspects were more clearly explained in the introductory scenario. For example, the fact that you can bypass enemy ZOCs by placing units next to them, or how to protect flanks and corridors from counterattacks (I'm having trouble with that in the first campaign scenario, maybe I'll start a thread about that).

Not sure exactly where I read this (could be RPS but I'm not sure) but I totally agree with whoever said that underneath the friendly looks of the game hides an aggressive AI -so, it would be a pity if new players were discouraged by the learning curve.

I understand that scenario design is to a greater or lesser extent dictated by history, but even the 2nd Kharkov (which, historically, was touch and go for both sides) in the Axis campaign poses problems that can't be solved by inexperienced players -again, I should mention all this in a separate thread, but I think it ties to the Crimea scenario, which looks easy but requires some degree of luck and definitely knowledge of the mechanism to bypass ZOC.

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Tomislav Uzelac
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Re: Crimea

Unread postby Tomislav Uzelac » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:47 am

Yes, first scenarios in both campaign are in fact rated "hard" and there's little I can do about it because it's a historical fact as you mentioned. In the "2nd Kharkov" campaign scenario we tried to smooth things for new players by giving them some starting prestige and an extra turn for an ordinary victory. It's still hard when you jump in directly.

I recommend the following approach for beginners (already posted here):

Play a few scenarios first: tutorial, introductory, one or two from the "easy" group. Then jump into the campaign and just keep reloading when you get stuck... either because you need a DV/BV or simply to accumulate more prestige for later scenarios.

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Meta Baston
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Re: Crimea

Unread postby Meta Baston » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:27 pm

Hello everyone,

I just succeeded winning in three moves! ('Proud of it, 'had to tell! :geek: )

Anyway, I had to understand the ZOC rules before knowing what to do correctly. Also, the Jaeger division, with its extra move, can be of much use to exploit gap toward Kerch.

Fighting for a BV gets really technical though. Not really my cup of tea but for the smaller scenarios (if there are any others than Crimea). Otherwise, this game is exactly what I was looking for for years! A fun, fast, intuitive with yet realistic/historical dimensions factored in Eastern Front game! Great thanks to the development team!

MB


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